TargetTalk

i'm very new to AP shooting. browsing through the topics i found that sight alignment along with a good trigger squeeze is the most important aspects one should concentrate upon.

my question is: what if your muzzle is pointing at, say the 4 or 5 ring during shot release.then isn't the shot going to hit the 4 or 5 ring irrespective of a good sight alignment and trigger squeeze?

bharath wrote:my question is: what if your muzzle is pointing at, say the 4 or 5 ring during shot release.then isn't the shot going to hit the 4 or 5 ring irrespective of a good sight alignment and trigger squeeze?

If the muzzle is pointing at the 4 or 5 ring then, apart from bullet/pellet drop, that is where the shot will hit.

The big point to note though is that most people will have the sights adjusted so that when they are pointing at an aiming area in the region of the 4 or 5 below the target, the muzzle will be pointing at a similar sized area centred on the middle of the target.

The sights and muzzle will not be pointing in the same place.

Hope this helps.

First of all, yes, the hole in the paper will be where the barrel is pointed when the pellet leaves the gun.

However,

The hold area is not as bad as it looks. Part of it is the diameter of the pellet or bullet. We see the center point, but the hole actually goes in closer to the center than that. The other part must be psychological. It just looks worse than it is. This is much more noticeable when shooting with a dot sight, but still true with open sights (at least for me).

It takes a little faith or a lot of practice and experimentation to shoot pistol. You either have to accept or learn that looking at the target will not help. Everything important is happening at the gun so that is where your focus should be (both mental focus and optical focus).

Concentrate on the front sight and how it is centered in the rear notch.

Dry fire until you can pull the trigger and keep the sights aligned.

There is no other way.

Best of luck,
Steve Turner

Just prior to final settling in your aiming area, Start the trigger finger meving. Never think about the trigger finger again, just switch your total attention and vision on the vital problem of perfecting sight allignment. [ If your finger will keep moving withour the mind being aware of it because the mind is totally involved in what I called the vital problem could this be subconcious trigger control ? ] Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:... [ If your finger will keep moving withour the mind being aware of it because the mind is totally involved in what I called the vital problem could this be subconcious trigger control ? ]

Yes. The pinnacle of what you are describing, is to be fully involved in "seeing" the sight alignment, such that the corrections and the trigger operation are completely controlled by the subconscious.

Too often, we intersperse conscious corrections into what we see and screw up the subconscious "ballistic computer." Whenever we try to consciously add corrections, a "wait" signal is sent to the rest of the process.

By following the method you described and having total faith in the process, you can reach quite high levels.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

1. The "hold" (aim) will always be moving and tehre is nothing you can do about that

2. You can (through training) develop a very, very, stable "alignment" even though the "hold" aim is moving quite severely

3. The smallest noticeable error of aim is actually quite large (ie yoiu can be way off aim and no even physically recognize it)

4. The smallest noticeable error in alignment is quite small and easily recognizable

5. Error in alignment is angular displacement

6. Error in hold is parallel displacement

Therefore

perfect aim with quite sloppy hold will give you much better results than (seemingly) perfect hold with sloppy alignment. That's where the old "tried and true" saying: "Shots with good alignment will always fall inside where you were pointed, and shots with bad alignment will aleways fall outside where yoiu were pointed" comes from.

It's a system. You must concentrate on the highest "bang for the buck" in terms of process variablitly reduction.

Check out some side reading in PVR and SPC and/or Quality Control. You must focus on that part of the process that contributes the most error to the overall result- and that which is "tractable" or solvable. Trying to improve your ability to hold in any significant way is very ong term, with very small results. Fix the obvious, critical stuff first. Also- once you have your process working right (focus on front sight, perfecting aim, and perfect trigger release-it's easier to work on the harder stuff. The reverse is most assuredly NOT true.

Steve Swartz

what if your muzzle is pointing at, say the 4 or 5 ring during shot release.then isn't the shot going to hit the 4 or 5 ring irrespective of a good sight alignment and trigger squeeze?

If the barrel of the pistol is actually pointing at the 4 or 5 ring, and the trigger squeeze did not move the barrel to someplace else on the target, yes you will get a 4 or 5. But what makes you think that the barrel is actually pointing at the 4 or 5 ring? If the sights are not aligned properly, you might precieve the barrel is pointing at the 4 or 5 ring, based on your general view of the front sight position on the target.

I enjoy reading Mr Swartz because for me he distinguishes well between hold and alignment and helps me understand the difference.

I have also heard it explained that your sight aligment comes from the wrist (and grip), and that very slight movements in the wrist joint change the angle of the pistol to the target. This is sight alignment. And very few actions in our lives outside of shooting require us to hold are wrist steady.

Hold or aim refers more probably to a combination of the motions, including the shoulder joint. But becuase the shoulder and front sight versus the target tend to remain parallel assuming the wrist does not move, the errors have less impact on the location of the shoot than does the sight alignment.

The longer length from the shoulder to the front sight versus the front to rear sight is math part.

Every shooter you meet will tell you they are looking at the front sight and their alignment. But for most struggleing shooters, this is probably the exception. Most have to work very hard at learning this technique. I know that when I do hours of drilling a week on primarily this aspect of shooting, my scores suddenly jump up after a few weeks. If I am not drilling, the groups open up and scores suffer considerably. I have heard of shooters making their national teams before they really understand sight alignment.

Thanks very much for all the posts.

They really helped me in understanding the basics, and what to work upon, and what not to work upon.

regards
bharath.