TargetTalk

Hans Standl in Pistol Shooting As A Sport writes that the sights should be checked while in the 45 deg ready position before the target turns (if I'm reading this correctly) while David E. Frierson in the NRA International Shooting Handbook prefers looking at the base of the target with the pistol at the 45 deg. ready position. I can see where each position would have it's benefits when bringing the rear sight quickly into focus, but...which one really is quicker? Or is there a better place to be looking?
Thanks!

John Kasaian wrote:Hans Standl in Pistol Shooting As A Sport writes that the sights should be checked while in the 45 deg ready position before the target turns (if I'm reading this correctly) while David E. Frierson in the NRA International Shooting Handbook prefers looking at the base of the target with the pistol at the 45 deg. ready position. I can see where each position would have it's benefits when bringing the rear sight quickly into focus, but...which one really is quicker? Or is there a better place to be looking?
Thanks!

Quiet eye research has given some indication as to where elite athletes (versus novice) stare. Novices fixate on their sights during the raise and then maneouver their sights into their area of aim.

QE research shows that elite athletes fixate on the edge where their area of aim will be. As the target starts to turn, they detect the movement and initiate the raise. As the target fully faces, they fixate their gaze on their area of aim. As the sights halt within their area of aim and obscure their target, they focus their vision on their sights, hold steady, quickly finalise their sight picture and complete their shot release.

Initially, I recommended focusing near the bottom of the target, to see the target move, then as the sights approached the target and obscured the targetbase, switch to the sights and ride them into the area of aim, fixing the alignment during the raise.

Now, I recommend the QE (target fixation) method and it works very well.

Whatever method you use, do it consistently and make sure that you focus on your front sights before, during and after release.

Regards.
Patrick

Hi Patrick,

That post was very interesting. I have been tending more towards the target focus, and worried that I was not paying enough attention to the sights. But now that you mention it, it seems obvious why the two groups behave differently: The elite shooter can pretty well count on a good alignment when he arrives on target. The less experienced man will risk a nasty surprise and have to shift his wrist and grip at the last moment.

At this point, I am somewhat on the fence. I look down at the angle of my gun and make sure the post is in line with the notch. Then I raise my sight to target level. But I don`t actually focus on the target. I just let my visiion mush out and wait for the sights to appear in my peripheral, which is when I go to hard focus on the sights while the brakes are going on to my arm movement, and tightnning up the trigger is part of a total muxcle effort stopping and locking the arm. A good shot involves full extension of the arm, hard sights and the detonation all together as the gun slows down. I don`t try to stop the gun before I fire, as that seems to bring on a jerk. What I do is like Achilles trying to catch the hare. He never really does, but he gets closer and closer. I find that as long as I am slowing down, the gun is getting steadier. So if the gun goes off when it is very, very slow, that is functionally identical to a motionless release.

Anyway, returning to the eye position, I hold the gun up for a three second follow through during which I memorize the position, and lower the arm with the intention of coming back to exactly the same spot. But as noted, I cheat just a little by glancing down to see my gun is straight before the next lift.


Best Regards,

Gordon

gordonfriesen wrote:...I look down at the angle of my gun and make sure the post is in line with the notch...
Gordon

to see the sight alignment in the READY position you are undoubtedly 'breaking' your wrist (upwards).

With practice (i.e. training), provided:
- your pistol's grip is correct for you and
- your body position is correct,
the pistol sights will be aligned when you are on the target.

Spencer

Spencer wrote:

gordonfriesen wrote:...I look down at the angle of my gun and make sure the post is in line with the notch...
Gordon

to see the sight alignment in the READY position you are undoubtedly 'breaking' your wrist (upwards).

Spencer, this topic was previously discussed in this thread.

The difficulty is that Gordon shoots from a chair and therefore has to point up at the target. I know it is counter-intuitive but in those circumstances you can actually see the front sight in the ready position.

For a standing shooter however, when the target will normally be at or below eye level, I would agree that you should not be able to see the front sight at the ready position.

Being a Revolver shooter both sights and target area are correct.
First shot - With sights aligned in aim area, 'Attention', arm lowered to 45deg
and eyes drop to somewhere between 3/4 of the way down range and base of target.
Target starts to turn, arm lifted and eyes catch sights as they move through the base of target and fine align to aim area with increasing pressure - BANG.
Arm dropped and wrist broken to recock revolver.
Arm straightened to lock wrist and elbow in 45 deg position.
Wrist lifted until looking down sights I can see the sight alignment (fore/aft).
Slowly tilt wrist down until the foresight disappears in rear notch - lock wrist.
Lift head into shooting position with eyes looking downrange - Target turns etc, etc,etc.

PS, To find 45deg, assume shoulder height is 5' , then locate a point 5' in front of you on the ground, in line with the target and point at it.

David Levene wrote:...The difficulty is that Gordon shoots from a chair and therefore has to point up at the target. I know it is counter-intuitive but in those circumstances you can actually see the front sight in the ready position...

Being a great believer in empirical methods, I have tried coming from the READY while seated in a chair (400mm): I maintain that to see the sight alignment in the READY position a shooter is undoubtedly 'breaking' the wrist (upwards), the only other alternative appears to be the shooter craning the head forward - neither would be good technique.

Spencer

Spencer wrote:

David Levene wrote:...The difficulty is that Gordon shoots from a chair and therefore has to point up at the target. I know it is counter-intuitive but in those circumstances you can actually see the front sight in the ready position...

Being a great believer in empirical methods, I have tried coming from the READY while seated in a chair (400mm)....

Edited post:-

The earlier discussion was regarding a claim that as you raise the gun into the aiming area the front sight drops into the rear sight. This is true if you are aiming uphill but false if you are aiming level.

If you are aiming uphill then your wrist angle will be forcing the front sight higher than if you were aiming level, so there is a chance that at the ready position you might be able to see the front sight.

David Spencer,

Thanks for taking the time to consider my case.

You are actually both right. As I convinced David in the other thread my post does drop a fraction in the last part of the raise. However, Spencer is right in that I am exagerating the post raise at the ready.

Spencer is saying that I should trust myself and train for the perfect lift. I am cheating by lowering the muzzle as I raise, which allows me to clearly see the post fitting into the notch. I didn`t even realize I was doing this until I talked it over with DAvid in the other thread. Now it is quite obvious to me. I`m not saying this is good. I can see that in theory it is a bad habit. But in my own defence I would say that if I am practicing this as the way my wrist finds the correct position, and if I always do it the same way: shoulder up--wrist down--lock and fire. Then it should be ok. The point is to get the sights aligned at the right moment.

The head thing is worse. I have done this too (bending the head forward to see the sights) And this I have definitely put on the NO list.

I do practice aligning the gun at the Attention command, then lower before the first turn. I will try to discipline myself not to look down, and see what happens. To be honest, I think that I sometimes look and sometimes don`t, so this is the worst case. I need to decide which way I am shooting and keep doing it that way.

Thanks,

Gordon