TargetTalk

Hi,

I hope you can help settle a debate.

Can you dry fire during a 10m air pistol match once you have started your scoring shots.

ie after your sighters.

If the answer is no, can you provide the rule link so I can prove it.

Cheers
Scott

Yes you can during the qualifying match as rule 8.6.4.4.1:-
The competition is considered as having started from the moment the command “START” is given by the Chief Range Officer. Every shot fired after the competitor completes his sighting shots must be counted in the competition. However, dry firing is allowed.

You are not allowed to dry fire during the final as rule 8.6.4.5.2:-
"Any release of the propelling charge, after the first competition target is in place, without a hit on the target will be scored as a miss. Dry firing without release of the propelling charge is permitted except during Finals."

edit note: The equivalent rule numbers in the 2009 rules are 6.11.2.2.2 and 6.11.4.1.1

David Levene wrote:Yes you can during the qualifying match as rule 8.6.4.4.1:-
The competition is considered as having started from the moment the command “START” is given by the Chief Range Officer. Every shot fired after the competitor completes his sighting shots must be counted in the competition. However, dry firing is allowed.

You are not allowed to dry fire during the final as rule 8.6.4.5.2:-
"Any release of the propelling charge, after the first competition target is in place, without a hit on the target will be scored as a miss. Dry firing without release of the propelling charge is permitted except during Finals."

edit note: The equivalent rule numbers in the 2009 rules are 6.11.2.2.2 and 6.11.4.1.1

maybe

there are two different types of 10m dry firing:
- with the discharge of propellant gas, and
- without the discharge of propellant gas 6.2.2.6.1

at its simplest,
- dry firing WITH the discharge of propellent gas is only permitted after START, but before the shooter switches to the first competition target (before START 6.11.4.1 warning for first occurence, -2 points for any subsequent for any dry fire with the discharge of propellant gas during Preparation Time: after the shooter switches to the first competition target 6.11.4.1.1 counted as a competition shot )
- dry firing WITHOUT the discharge of propellant gas is allowed as per David's reply

Spencer

Cheers Lads that clears it all up!!!

No rules have been broken.

Spencer wrote:

David Levene wrote:Yes you can during the qualifying match as rule 8.6.4.4.1:-
The competition is considered as having started from the moment the command “START” is given by the Chief Range Officer. Every shot fired after the competitor completes his sighting shots must be counted in the competition. However, dry firing is allowed.

You are not allowed to dry fire during the final as rule 8.6.4.5.2:-
"Any release of the propelling charge, after the first competition target is in place, without a hit on the target will be scored as a miss. Dry firing without release of the propelling charge is permitted except during Finals."

edit note: The equivalent rule numbers in the 2009 rules are 6.11.2.2.2 and 6.11.4.1.1

maybe

there are two different types of 10m dry firing:
- with the discharge of propellant gas, and
- without the discharge of propellant gas 6.2.2.6.1

at its simplest,
- dry firing WITH the discharge of propellent gas is only permitted after START, but before the shooter switches to the first competition target (before START 6.11.4.1 warning for first occurence, -2 points for any subsequent for any dry fire with the discharge of propellant gas during Preparation Time: after the shooter switches to the first competition target 6.11.4.1.1 counted as a competition shot )
- dry firing WITHOUT the discharge of propellant gas is allowed as per David's reply

Spencer

Dry firing with the discharge of propellant gas is not dry firing.

Anonymous wrote:Dry firing with the discharge of propellant gas is not dry firing.

That was my first reaction as well. I have always taken dry firing to be 'operation of the trigger without release of gas'. I don't recall seeing a definition of dry firing in the ISSF rules, but I'd be suprised if there wasn't one somewhere....

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dry firing with the discharge of propellant gas is not dry firing.

That was my first reaction as well. I have always taken dry firing to be 'operation of the trigger without release of gas'. I don't recall seeing a definition of dry firing in the ISSF rules, but I'd be suprised if there wasn't one somewhere....

8.2.5.3.1 (changes to 6.2.2.6.1 in the 2009 rules):-
Dry Firing means the release of the cocked trigger mechanism of an unloaded cartridge pistol or the release of the trigger mechanism of an air or gas pistol fitted with a device which enables the trigger to be operated without releasing the propelling charge (air or gas).

and the rule was introduced because...

...(back in the days when most pistols and rifles did not have a dry-fire mode) dry firing with the discharge of gas was an accepted part of the 10m events until...

...a shooter fired an accidental, shot, missed the target - and claimed it was a dry-fire.

Hey! Presto! In the following set of rules the ISSF introduced the definition for allowable dry-firing.

Spencer

just to put my two cents worth in.

i have seen a competitor that was struggling with the dreaded trigger freeze during a major match dry firing for considerable periods during the match.

this resulted in drawing the attention of the range staff.

after completing the match the competitor was 'selected' for random trigger testing.

they passed with no problems.

just be careful

aar wrote:just to put my two cents worth in.

i have seen a competitor that was struggling with the dreaded trigger freeze during a major match dry firing for considerable periods during the match.

this resulted in drawing the attention of the range staff.

after completing the match the competitor was 'selected' for random trigger testing.

they passed with no problems.

just be careful

Firstly trigger freeze would suggest to me an overly heavy trigger, if there was any mechanical component to the problem. However in 99.99% of cases it's purely a mental issue.

The 'random' trigger testing is just that, or it should be.

Lastly who cares if you're 'selected', if your gun passed equipment control in the first place, then it should do so again.

Rob.