TOZ top-lever question

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:23 am

to those of you who have a toz toplever i.e. Nygord or ??? What is the mechanism that performs the function of the lever latch on the bottom of the standard lever Toz. I have never seen a top lever pistol without the grips,and was wondering how the lever was latched closed before firing. Any photos would be much appreciated...Thankyou

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:24 am

there is more than one way u can do it. the simplest way is to cut the bottom of the frame off and simply weld a new lever on. the weight of the lever holds the breech closed. I just purchased another toz and as it probable one of the first into australia. probably late 60s, I will probably shoot with this 1 instead. With the conversion on this one i will probable inlet 2 ballbearings into the frame and put the lever on a spring. I dont no the exact procedure for this yet but i know a person who has done it and it is a more precise way to do it

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:48 am

this is if you want to make a new grip and loose all the extra weight of the heavy frame if you cant make the new grip you might have to do it differently. i can get a pic if u want

MichaelB · Post by **MichaelB** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 am

Why do you want to? What's the disadvantage in the original arrangement?

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:05 am

Depending on what you want to do with the grip, the frame gets in the way. My dad has a nicely modified TOZ and is very happy with it. The parts of the frame needed for the original screws are still there, but the heavy parts are gone, and the new side lever somehow clicks into place. I've seen it done with a Hammerli 150 lever, which looks very stylish. Potentially, I'd say that it should be possible to get a up-/sideways adjustable grip with a convential screw from the bottom...

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:28 am

Tycho wrote: Potentially, I'd say that it should be possible to get a up-/sideways adjustable grip with a convential screw from the bottom...

There was a picture of exactly that on the Rink website a couple of years ago. Don't know if it's still there.

FredB

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:50 pm

Thanks for all the replies...the weight reduction is one thing,and the ergonomics is another,and just because I want to is another !! The ball bearing detent is one idea I had considered,or an overcenter latch/catch too.Perhaps neither is really necessary ? I have alredy removed the screw tangs at the bottom of the latch area,to improve the grip ergonomics...all that is left is the latch. The Toz would be better off for those of us with short fingers,if the toplever latch was standard,with no metal below the bottom of the action. The Morini grip does not require the lower screws.
Muffo,could you please send some photos,if possible

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:45 pm

Here is a Toz sidecocker by Don Nygord

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:02 pm

Here's another one - this picture from the Rink site, so presumably modified in Europe

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:50 pm

Fred , thankyou very much for the photos...if the first one is yours,is there some kind of latching when it's closed ? thanks, Jonathan

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:36 am

jsealc21 wrote:Fred , thankyou very much for the photos...if the first one is yours,is there some kind of latching when it's closed ? thanks, Jonathan

As received my Toz was fitted with Toz grip and forend. Nygord had inletted a ball bearing into the forend to act as a friction lock on the block operating arm. When I fitted the pistol with Rink grip and forend, not having the skill to inlet a ball bearing, I simply fitted the forend so that the wood pressed lightly on the operating arm when closed. Worked fine.
On the pistol in the Rink picture, you can see where the gunsmith has inletted a ball bearing into the frame so that it bears on the arm when the action is closed. Again, just light pressure is sufficient to keep the block closed.

This modification significantly changes the weight, and balance, of the pistol. It is possible to move the balance back to the rear by fitting a lighter Hammerli style forend. Log onto and register at http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Free_Pistol/ to see a variety of 50M pistol pictures

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:39 am

Fred , thankyou very much for all the helpful information. I can now proceed with my ever-changing project !!! After removing as much extraneous weight as possible,and making the grip rotatable,as are most airpistol grips,and maybe an aluminium( kiwi spelling) fore end,like the bersagliomobile website, with adjustable weights,maybe I'll have time to practise !!!....which of course ,would realise far better results than all the screwing around I'm anticipating doing....but as we all know,fiddling with free pistols is a lot more fun than boring old training exercises , isn't it !!

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:40 am

Fred Mannis wrote:Here's another one - this picture from the Rink site, so presumably modified in Europe

This side lever seems to come from a Hammerli 160/162 and is mounted just like on a Hammerli 160/162.

ruig · Post by **ruig** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:10 pm

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:25 pm

sorry i forgot to check this thread so didnt get the pics, looks like your all set. Also when my father did mine he moved the grip up probably an inch and a half and pivited the trigger mechanism up the same amount which gives the pistol much better recoil.

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:29 am

Muffo , do you have any pictures of your Dad's design ? thanks , Jonathan

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:23 pm

Il get some today and psot them up tonight.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:54 am

Ok il have pics up tomorrow along with a fairly interesting history

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:59 am

Ok here r some pics.
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0090.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0093.jpg
note the grip was partly made for some1 else and as i shoot right hand left eye it had to have a peice added.
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0096.jpg
Note the sight now sits in the grip instead of above the grip like on a stock one. this is quiet common when a new grip is made.
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0100.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0101.jpg
the frame is sitting backwards but you get the picture
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0104.jpg
this is what you loose
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0105.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0106.jpg
this is the weld you grind off, 1 mins work
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32 ... CT0107.jpg
and thats where it sat.
there you go dead easy. this is the easiest way do do it but when i do my new one i will do it with the ball bearings in the frame and a smaller lighter leaver. Also note how much thiner the wood is which moves the trigger up a heap.

Ok so here is the story behind it. This is what i have pieced together and maybe not exact but fairly close. this conversion has been done for many years. My father performed this conversion some time in the 70s i think. John Tremeling was a top Australian free pistol shooter. He was probably the first person to do the top lever conversion in Aus. very soon after this when my father saw this he along with a couple of other also did the conversion. This probable makes it one of the first done in aus and probably the first in our state. At the same time my father was teaching him self the skill of grip making. Just after this Don Nygord came over to Aus to spend some time with the shooters from the Australian training squad, my father was introduced to him as another grip maker. He spent quiet some time with him learning how he went about making grips and why. Most grip makers here make there grips similar to a commercial grip but more fitted. the have smooth lines all over. apon spending the time with Don he started making grips with very sharp defined lines. this helps when gripping the pistol because it is much more noticable if your hand is slightly wrong. This could be wrong but at this point Nygord hadnt done the top lever conversion to the toz before, so he started doing it in america after looking at tremelings conversion. So although there would have been some done in other countries and maybe even some done here that they didnt know about but this was probably one of the first top lever conversions done in the world

jsealc21 · Post by **jsealc21** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:48 am

Muffo ,thankyou for your post , and photos.All these Toz conversions have their own unique slant,which makes for a fascinating story. Thankyou to everyone who posted on this topic...Jonathan.

I shall now go forth with a renewed vigour to modify ,not practise ...LOL, with TIC*

* Tongue in cheek *

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