TargetTalk

I tried to find some topics about this but couldn't see a great deal. From the tit bits I have seen it appears that, at least from a .22 pistols perspective, not a lot of cleaning is recommended which just seems odd to me, particularly since some pistols - like the FAS, falter if dirty.

So how much cleaning is needed, what does one clean and what does one use to clean? The FAS602 I was using had a couple of misfires (hammer failed to strike) and a quick look by the owner suggested a build up of crud around the bit that the firing pin comes out of. So I have bought toothbrush and nylon tooth picks for associated 'picking' and 'scrubbing'. What about solvents? What about oiling?

I also read that one should never use a bullet that fell to the floor even after attempts to clean it due to the potential for microscopic particles causing irreparable damage to the barrel. So what is stopping these particles coming to rest on the bullet whilst one is loading? Just how much does one 'take with a grain of salt' what one reads?

Cheers

David

David, I believe in cleaning and use "Match Winner Bore Cleaner" because I have it left over from my rifle days. I also used the Break Free that came with my Hammerli 162. When I was at a match, I was told that Break Free attacks the carbon fibre in the pistol. I called Wade Anderson and he said it was bunk! So yeah, take things with a grain of salt. However, I would not shoot a round that fell on the ground. There is a chance of iron filings, sand, or other nasties stuck to the lube.

I have a dental pick for getting the crud from the actions and use a cleaning patch with solvent to wipe the action that needs cleaning. I lightly oil the bore with a patch and the action.

On my smallbore rifles, I used to take the bolt apart at least once a year to clean the firing pin and the inside of the bolt. It's amazing how much stuff gets in there. I've found that the bolt face and the barrel breech accumulate a lot of gunk. Don't forget the recessed area of the breech where the extractors rest.

It's easier to show you than write about.
HTH
Ben

A metal Dental pick? I have a metal dental pick plus some small (toothbrush sized) wirebrushes (bronze, wire and nylon) plus a tiny wirebrush from a soldering toolkit (3mm wide paintbrush shaped).

How much damage might a wirebrush do? Should they be used at all or are they considered too harsh?

Cheers

David

higginsdj wrote:A metal Dental pick? I have a metal dental pick plus some small (toothbrush sized) wirebrushes (bronze, wire and nylon) plus a tiny wirebrush from a soldering toolkit (3mm wide paintbrush shaped).

How much damage might a wirebrush do? Should they be used at all or are they considered too harsh?

Cheers

David

David, I don't have any of the small wire brushes like you have. I use the dental pick to get the barrel breech and the bolt face. It works well to reach in the corners and get some of the wet residue after patching the barrel. I wouldn't wire brush the action as part of a regular cleaning. Most of it can be cleaned with solvent and a patch or cloth. Relube after cleaning, though.

I just remembered, I used to uncock the bolt on my rifle to clean the firing pin. There are some angles on it that collect gunk. I'm going to have to look at my free pistol and see what is on there. It's harder to get to.

Regards,
Ben

Just a wooden toothpick and a normal nylon toothbrush should be enough to clean any part of a FAS, apart from the barrel.
Q-Tips are also handy for picking up gunk.

Most parts of the FAS are quite soft, including the barrel, so be careful.

Plain oil, if left overnight, will loosen most dirt, if not just reapply until it does.

I second James' advice. While I have used steel dental picks ocassionally, it is very risky business. Good solvent, wooden picks, nylon bushes, and Q-tips will do the job almost every time. For very difficult situations I have fashioned, and use, brass picks and scrapers.

Freepistol wrote: I'm going to have to look at my free pistol and see what is on there. It's harder to get to.

Hi Ben. My CM84E just stopped working and I was forced to clean it for the first time. Lots of gunk, especially in the bolt, causing the firing pin to stick.
As a result, I've decided to do it on an annual basis.
Fred

Hello,
Has anyone tried an untrasonic cleaner. L&R makes a line of cleaners based on this process. First, an aqueous cleaner is used in an ultrasonic cleanere. Then a solution with something hygroscopic (water absorbing) and a lubricant is used in the ulrasonic cleaner. Sounds like a great method.
DAF

DaFont wrote:Hello,
Has anyone tried an untrasonic cleaner. L&R makes a line of cleaners based on this process. First, an aqueous cleaner is used in an ultrasonic cleanere. Then a solution with something hygroscopic (water absorbing) and a lubricant is used in the ulrasonic cleaner. Sounds like a great method.
DAF

Yep - and found it to be a great way to clean any part that will fit into the cleaning bath. It is amazing watching the crud that comes out of parts.

I use white spirit as the solvent for pistol parts (after removing any bit that the petroleum might damage).

A word of caution - press-fit parts can come loose and adjustments on triggers can change. E.g. the ejector on High Standards can come out of its location, and the thread seal on Walther triggers can disappear.

Spencer

What is "white spirits". Here in Canberra I've asked around at hardware stores etc over the years and no-one knows what I am talking about. Is it Turpentine or a derivative? Is acetone too harsh as a solvent?

From an Oil perspective is light machine oil OK (ie the old sewing machine oil) or does it need to be something more specialised (I see references to oils that stick to metal but not to particles etc)

higginsdj wrote:What is "white spirits".

Here in the UK it's also known as "turpentine substitute". It's normally used for cleaning paint brushes after using gloss paint.

higginsdj wrote:What is "white spirits". Here in Canberra I've asked around at hardware stores etc over the years and no-one knows what I am talking about. Is it Turpentine or a derivative? Is acetone too harsh as a solvent?

White spirits is also known as Stoddard Solvent, though I think that is a term used more in the United States. As well as a paint thinner / brush cleaner, it is also used in the dry-cleaning industry (sometimes called "dry-cleaners solvent"). If you are having difficulty finding it, visit a decent camping store and ask for a bottle of Coleman Fuel (i.e. fuel for Coleman camping stoves) - it is essentially the same stuff and seems to be universally available throughout the English-speaking world.
Straight acetone is pretty harsh. It could attack any plastics that may be on the gun and any varnish on the grip. It is also more toxic than white spirits and you should avoid breathing the vapours. It is however not too bad when diluted down in "Ed's Red". Google "Ed's Red" for the recipe. I use it all the time and think it’s great (cleans and lubricates).

Dry Cleaning Solvent - is that the same as Dry Cleaning Fluid?

Don't you just love it when we all have different names for the same thing (or the same name for different things.....)

Actually - I might just use WD-40. According to the Wiki, the formula is:

WD-40's main ingredients, according to U.S. Material Safety Data Sheet information, are:

* 50%: Stoddard solvent (i.e., mineral spirits -- primarily hexane, somewhat similar to kerosene)
* 25%: Liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide is now used instead to reduce WD-40's considerable flammability)
* 15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
* 10-%: Inert ingredients

Does anyone think WD-40 would not be a reasonable choice as a general purpose cleaner on a pistol?

higginsdj wrote: Does anyone think WD-40 would not be a reasonable choice as a general purpose cleaner on a pistol?

I don't think it is a reasonable choice. It dries to a gummy film that will attract dirt, powder debris, etc. It is formulated as rust preventative with some lubricating properties. I use it keep tools from rusting.

I am a great believer in tradition. Hoppes No. 9 was formulated to clean firearms and has been used for over 50 years. After cleaning there are any number of other products that will lubricate parts that need to be lubricated, as well as other products designed to protect surfaces from rust.

Here in AUS, white spirit = Shellite from the supermarket

Yep! - Coleman Fuel (i.e. fuel for Coleman camping stoves)

When pertoleum solvents are used in an ultrasonic cleaning bath - do so in a well ventilated area ONLY, and be careful that the solvent does not get too hot - access to a fire extinguisher is a good idea.
I have never had any problems with the flammability side of things, but caution is advised.

Spencer

higginsdj wrote: . . . . . Does anyone think WD-40 would not be a reasonable choice as a general purpose cleaner on a pistol?

I have some biking friends who use WD-40 to clean the grease and other gunk from the chain on their mountain bikes. They spray it on heavily and let it run off with the dirt. It is an accepted practice. The chain is then lubed with chain oil.
I don't think that is necessary on our pistols because we don't normally drag them through the mud,{nor do we have a chain}, but it should do a good job if it doesn't get on the stock.

WD 40 will in time produce a varnish on the treated surface. I know gunners who use it, but I would never recommend it for firearms.

All of my auto pistols get cleaned and lubed with only 1 thing: Hornady One-shot Gun Cleaner and Lube (in the black spray can). It has a solvent that cleans, and a lube that dries in about 30 seconds. I use this on my 1911s and 22s, with good success. They really do stay quite clean as there is no oily film to "collect" debris.

Marlin

I use Breakfree CLP for my cleaning solvent, RemOil as a light oil for slides, and a light grease (TW-25) for sliding high pressure surfaces, like where the hammer pushes against the under side of the slide. Any residue of Breakfree will provide some rust protection, and it doesn't turn into varnish like WD-40. When applying any lube, do so sparingly, and only to the surfaces that really need it. Excess oil & grease just attracts dirt.

The thing that causes most problems is crud (lube & powder residue) building up in the chamber. This will vary with the tightness of the chamber, and the lube on the ammo. As it builds up in a semi-auto, the slide has to work harder & harder to seat the round fully. It also becomes harder to extract. Eventually, either you will get light hits because the hammer is closing the slide the last little bit, or you will get cycling problems from hard extraction. Over time, you should get a feel for how often you need to give your pistols a bath to keep them running reliably.

A lot of times you can keep going for a while just by cleaning the chamber. If I don't have time for a proper full cleaning, I keep a brass bore brush in my box with the stem bent at a right angle. This allows me to insert it in the chamber and rotate it back & forth without any disassembly. I don't like firing a round through all of the crud I may have loosened, so I keep a pull-through cleaning device and patches in my box as well. The one I use is called a "Patch Worm". You can make your own fairly easily with some nylon weed whacker string. Carve a sharp point on one end, and melt a blob on the other end to hold a patch. I have a Pardini free pistol that will fail to extract after 100 rounds or so until I clean the chamber using the above procedure. You want to use a NEW bore brush for the chamber. Once they've been through the rifling, it usually mashed the bristles down enough that they won't do a good job on a chamber.

Even if you keep the chamber clean, crud will build up on the bolt face, and this will slowly increase the distance the firing pin has to travel to get a good hit. Some pistols are more forgiving than others in this regard. As others have mentioned, gunk can also get pushed into the firing pin hole, retarding its movement. Toothpicks & Q-tips are my preferred tools when things get that bad.

The last problem you can get into is accuracy issues from leading in the bore. I have a Benelli MP90 where the rifling will only properly stabilize many brands of ammo if the bore is reasonably clean. After a couple thousand rounds, I will start getting keyholed shots. At that point, I clean it with a bronze brush and some "Lead Away" chemically treated patch material.

Every pistol is a little different, and the lube and powder residue from ammo also varies wildly. I try not to "over clean" my pistols, but I sometimes get caught going just a little too long between cleanings, especially when I don't have time to practice and catch issues before they happen in a match.

One other caution: ultrasonic cleaners are great (and I have one), but I never use them on my pistols. They can flush dirt into delicate spots (think: free pistol trigger), and it will remove ALL lube from places that are hard to get to unless you do a complete tear-down. If I'm going to have to take something apart that far anyway, I will use the cleaner for the parts, but never on an assembled pistol.