TargetTalk

In the ISSF Centre Fire match I am shooting a Pardini HP (.32 S&W Long) and my normal score has been running in the range of 550 - 565. Lately I am having my scores ruined by unexpected 7's and sometimes 6's.

Now with the problems with the 7's my score is dropping (recently a 536), and I have been unable to determine why these shots are occurring. Recently a fellow club member, after watching me shoot, made the comment that when I take aim everything initially is OK but after a couple of seconds I begin to sway (something that I was not aware of), and generally it is during this period that I release the shot.

If anybody can advise on achieving and maintaining stability in my stance I would be glad to hear from you.

Dazza

While I DON'T profess to be able to help (since your scores are better than mine), it might be worth mentioning whether your problems are in the precision or rapid fire stage or both?

Regards

Pete

Problem seems to occur only during the precision stage, rapid fire is OK.

The fact that happens in the precision series and not in the rapid fire, makes me think that you are too much time in sight.
Try to shoot in three seconds also in the precision series and see what happens...
Bye Gigi

dazza wrote:In the ISSF Centre Fire match I am shooting a Pardini HP (.32 S&W Long) and my normal score has been running in the range of 550 - 565. Lately I am having my scores ruined by unexpected 7's and sometimes 6's.

Now with the problems with the 7's my score is dropping (recently a 536), and I have been unable to determine why these shots are occurring. Recently a fellow club member, after watching me shoot, made the comment that when I take aim everything initially is OK but after a couple of seconds I begin to sway (something that I was not aware of), and generally it is during this period that I release the shot.

If anybody can advise on achieving and maintaining stability in my stance I would be glad to hear from you.

1/ check the accuracy of the pistol/ammunition combination, over say 100 shots, to eliminate this. You could be getting 'flyers' (dare I suggest, particularly with a .32).
2/ have you consulted a coach? QAPSA has an excellent coaching structure available.

Spencer

when I take aim everything initially is OK but after a couple of seconds I begin to sway (something that I was not aware of), and generally it is during this period that I release the shot

Swaying [ within reason ] is not a problem if the sight alignment remains correct....but next time you shoot, check that you are not having a little mental lapse and loss of focus on the sight picture at, or just before shot release. With regards to Spencers comment about flyers...They are a distinct possibility....what ammo are you using ? I used a teflon coated projectile at one stage and experienced the same wild shots, even though I was convinced my technique was intact. It was the inconsistency of the coating that was the culprit. I returned to using Malcolm Bones wax coated Taipan projectiles [ Gympie ..Qld. ] and the problem vanished. I hope your solution is as easy as mine was.

Deadeyedick your reference to the projectiles causing the problem could be correct. Taipan are my preferred brand but have been unable to obtain them for several months, so I have been forced to use another brand. Although I cannot say that the problem began when I changed brands.

In my limited experience with 32, rounds tumbling can often cause quite wild fliers. You should however be able to identify oval shaped holes in the targets. Are the fliers always in the same place ? - if so it suggests a technique issue, such as my own personal favourite 'poor triggering'.

Rob.

(Sorry Rob...)
In some 30 years of using .32S&W Long out to 50 yards, tumbling is not necessarily an indication of bad grouping.
Particularly at 25m, some of the best grouping .32 loads with 98gr hollow-base wadcutters have exhibited some tumbling.

We sometimes also get the same effect for .22LR - i.e. some of the best grouping ammunition has exhibited some tumbling.
Back in the days when T22 was 'good stuff' it often exhibited tumbling in European 25m pistols but gave good (great?) groups. This was a bummer for the scorers, but lack of reliable ignition and the resulting malfunctions soon saw it fall out of favour at competitions.

Spencer

Sorry Rob...)
In some 30 years of using .32S&W Long out to 50 yards, tumbling is not necessarily an indication of bad grouping.
Particularly at 25m, some of the best grouping .32 loads with 98gr hollow-base wadcutters have exhibited some tumbling.

We sometimes also get the same effect for .22LR - i.e. some of the best grouping ammunition has exhibited some tumbling.
Back in the days when T22 was 'good stuff' it often exhibited tumbling in European 25m pistols but gave good (great?) groups. This was a bummer for the scorers, but lack of reliable ignition and the resulting malfunctions soon saw it fall out of favour at competitions.

Spencer

Many ballistics experts may find this confusing Spencer......it seems to contradict ballistics, physics and aerodynamics all at the same time.
My personal experience with tumbling projectiles is more limited than yours apparently, but whenever I have used a load that was too slow, and evidence of tumbling was present, or as is the case at the moment within the club we have a Hi Standard .22 that is a chronic tumbler with any ammo ....the results are catastrophic with relation to accuracy.
Unless I'm wrong, the rifling is to produce spin, which provides a gyroscopic effect, and the required projectile stability needed to give repeatable accuracy. I would love to hear what others with more ballistics experience have to say about this.

Spencer wrote:(Sorry Rob...)
In some 30 years of using .32S&W Long out to 50 yards, tumbling is not necessarily an indication of bad grouping.
Particularly at 25m, some of the best grouping .32 loads with 98gr hollow-base wadcutters have exhibited some tumbling.

<snip>

Spencer

Like I say my experience is limited, but I've seen it quite a few times, Where the shooters have a nice tight group of four shots in the middle with a 'nice' oval hole 3 or 4 scoring rings away.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:...Like I say my experience is limited, but I've seen it quite a few times, Where the shooters have a nice tight group of four shots in the middle with a 'nice' oval hole 3 or 4 scoring rings away.
Rob.

I have seen this too, in all pistol calibres. But, I have also seen consistently tight groups that also have tumbles.

deadeyedick wrote:Many ballistics experts may find this confusing Spencer......it seems to contradict ballistics, physics and aerodynamics all at the same time.
My personal experience with tumbling projectiles is more limited than yours apparently, but whenever I have used a load that was too slow, and evidence of tumbling was present, or as is the case at the moment within the club we have a Hi Standard .22 that is a chronic tumbler with any ammo ....the results are catastrophic with relation to accuracy.
Unless I'm wrong, the rifling is to produce spin, which provides a gyroscopic effect, and the required projectile stability needed to give repeatable accuracy. I would love to hear what others with more ballistics experience have to say about this.

must agree that many (most) really bad pistol/ammo combinations will usually display tumbling, but some tumbling can be present with good groups.

Spencer