TargetTalk

I'm a novice. To date I have shot with a Hammerli 208 and a Hammerli 280 (the 280 is much nicer than than 208). I know I should try as many as I can BUT here in Australia the market is small and the pool of pistols to try is even smaller.

Money is no object (within reason - ie I may be able to buy brand new on the cheaper guns but more likely second hand) so I am looking for accuracy, quality, reliability and, I have to be honest, stylish good looks. I know it doesn't matter when it comes to gun performance but if I don't like the look of the pistol it's going to affect my attitude about shooting it.

It's going to be 5 months before I can 'own' a pistol but I can always get a dealer or licensed shooter to 'hold it' when something hits the market that I want and with Australia's very small market, doors of opportunity open and close very quickly.

Cheers

Accuracy wise there is very little between brands they will all group better than most shooter can hold. It all comes down to what you like and how it feels when you are using it.

You said you want a gun that you find attractive and feel good about. Have a look through the shooting mags and internet amd make a list of the pistols that appeal to you, try them all if you can. I'm sure one or two will feel much better than the rest.

If the pistol pool at your club is limited you may need to visit a few clubs or open competitions, most competitors will be more than willing to let you try their pistol once they have finished shooting for the day. You will find nearly all brands being used by competitors so chances are someone will be using what you fancy.

It's always a good idea to read through target talk first and ask specific questions second - there is a lot of information already around, and no need to duplicate the same thread every few weeks.

higginsdj wrote:...BUT here in Australia the market is small and the pool of pistols to try is even smaller...

What part of AUS, and what club?

Spencer

Well thats several tens of thousands of posts as a minimum.

Going back as far as June I see nothing exept individual 'issue' type posts with a handful of .22 types (at least from what I can decipher) - perhaps you have some recommended threads?

Is it possible to have some of these 'common threads' created as 'sticky topics' so they appear at the front of the forum for new members?

Cheers

David

I'm in Canberra, CNPC.

Cheers

David

higginsdj wrote:I'm in Canberra, CNPC.

Cheers

David

ask around CNPC (don't be shy) - there should be a good range of pistols and good advice there for the asking.

Spencer

higginsdj wrote:I'm in Canberra, CNPC.

Cheers

David

I think the ACT Tittles are at CNPC in 4 weeks should be a few different pistols around that weekend. As Spencer said don't be shy have a chat and ask questions. Remember everyone is there because they enjoy the sport (even the elite level shooters) and they will mostly be willing to help as long as you don't try to approach them on the fireing line.
There will be a few competitors from my club there a couple of AW93's Pardini, 208 shouldn't be to much drama to organise a few shots after competition.

Save yourself time and effort...I have tried them all and your short list of needs including "stylish good looks" refers to one pistol only.....the latest version og Matchguns MG2. All the earlier technical problems have been engineered out with this latest model, and it is a winner in every area.
Do yourself a favour, and contact John Moore at Euroarms in Adelaide to find out more. I have an MG2 RF that is a little over twelve months old that they updated to the current specs, and which will now shoot any ammo, without cleaning, and will shoot the eye out of a gnat,... and looks like it was borrowed from Buck Rogers armoury.

Is a new high-tech pistol really suitable for a beginning shooter? It could be an expensive way of turning somebody off the sport.

It might be better to start off with a 'simpler' second-hand pistol that will sell for much the same price as when purchased when/if he wants something else and has enough experience to know what he is looking for.

David's initial post lists "accuracy, quality, reliability and, I have to be honest, stylish good looks" when in fact reliability, fit (to the size of hand), accuracy, quality, and stylish good looks in that order would be better imperatives.

From a coach's perspective, I try to convince new shooters that an Air Pistol is a good choice as a first pistol to learn the basics.

Spencer

Spencer's final comment is highly relevant. I played around with several .22 S/A and a couple of revolvers before I spent $100 and bought an old Airmatch 600. I wish I had bought an airpistol 30 years ago, it taught me a great deal.

I totally disagree. In theory the "buy a lesser pistol" and work your way up sounds great...in reality its exactly the opposite. The mistakes I made starting out in pistol shooting were buying pistols with limited development potential, and then having to acquire a new grip and trigger memory . Modern pistols like the MG2 and Walther SSP are as forgiving as anyone could want initially, but the potential for further personal development without the need to readjust from one pistol to the next is a huge advantage, not to mention the ability to change grip angles, trigger weights,stage lengths, and sight pictures that the cheaper and older pistols just don't offer in most cases..and the few that do provide limited adjustability are just that...limited.
Owning a top end pistol is a a relatively inexpensive exercise compared to most other sports, and owning it at the outset makes a lot more sense to me, and certainly removes the tedium of putting up with what will prove to be equipment limitations.
The original poster also mentioned that price was not a problem...so dude, remember this...life is brief...buy the best now and you will eliminate one more of many pistol shooters favourite pastimes....blaming their equipment for poor performance. Good luck.

I should point out that a Steyr LP10/2 is on the top of my AP list and I will be buying both an AP and Sports .22 (I just haven't had an opportunity to shoot an AP yet.) I am shooting well enough at the moment to keep my shots inside the 8 ring at 25m (thats after 2 sessions).

I've also been watching a lot of ISSF.TV and taking note of what the experts are using.

For the last 20 years I have been a competitive target archer and prior to that I was a serviceman with some experience shooting service pistol using a standard Navy issue 9mm Browning.

Cheers

David

That being the case you would be wasting time buying old technology.
By the way, have a close look at the FWB p44. I owned an LP10, and a great pistol it is, but the latest offering from Feinwerkbau with a KN grip is also very capable.

deadeyedick wrote:Save yourself time and effort...I have tried them all and your short list of needs including "stylish good looks" refers to one pistol only.....the latest version og Matchguns MG2. All the earlier technical problems have been engineered out with this latest model, and it is a winner in every area.
Do yourself a favour, and contact John Moore at Euroarms in Adelaide to find out more. I have an MG2 RF that is a little over twelve months old that they updated to the current specs, and which will now shoot any ammo, without cleaning, and will shoot the eye out of a gnat,... and looks like it was borrowed from Buck Rogers armoury.

MG2 wouldn't be my recomendation for a new shooter. I keep hearing all the bugs have been ironed out but are yet to see it. Watched MG2 magazines flying down range followed by a rainbow of 22's only 2 weeks ago at state championships. Was being used by a competitor with international experience so how is a beginer going to go.
My club has one member who regularly shot mid 540's in Std Pistol with an old high standard citation. Didn't have any trouble adapting when he upgraded to AW93 and scores have steadly improved into 560's.

I'ld follow Spencers advice and look at something a bit cheaper to start with. If you buy secondhand you should be able to sell it for the same money if you decide to upgrade latter.

I think I would prefer something that has been around for a while so second hand isn't a problem - its just that the second hand market seems pretty small and I don't want to buy something just because it is all that is available when I am legal to own.

Hello Aus guest, I understand your concerns about MG2's, but the latest developments are amazing in how the pistol has been transformed. With regards to magazines falling out, that will only happen if the magazine has not been inserted correctly, and could apply to any pistol handled in such a way.
I have owned three AW93's, and found them extremely reliable, but I was never able to improve my scores....seemed top heavy and hard to control, and not enough rake angle for my liking...however the MG2 has a particular Italian magic about it, and now that Steffano Calzetti at Matchguns provided the re designed slide and buffers, it is magical. These are words coming from someone who owns one, not heresay. Since the new parts were fitted it has never malfunctioned , or been cleaned,even after over 1000 rounds and runs on any ammo.
There is a reason why Bruce Quick, arguably Australias best pistol shooter uses one, and I now understand why. Its a shame that earlier production runs didnt have these newly designed components, as It really is a magical pistol and a joy to use.
In the end purchasing a pistol is a personal thing, but my 2 cents worth after owning a 208, 208s and 280 Hammerli that david has tried and enjoyed is that given the same choices again I would re purchase the MG2, followed by a Walther SSP for their adjustability and that "extension to your arm" that both provide. good luck in your decision David

deadeyedick the MG2 magazine just seems that little bit more complicateed than a convetional magazine, one more thing that a beginer would be better off not having to worry about.

Personally I don't like the balance/feel of the AW93 either and my pick would be the SSP, but plenty of competitors shoot world class scores with the AW93 so as everyone has been saying it is very much a personal thing on how the pistol feels to the individual.

David if your interested in an AW93 I know another of Aus top shooters (Justin Toohey) has one for sale at a reasonable price. He has had success with this gun at national level and with his Hammerli AP that is also for sale. Someone at CNPC should be able to give you his contact details.

Hey Au Guest,

Thats sounds good. There are a few shooters locally with the AW93 so I should be able to get my hands on one to try sooner or later. Today I had the opportunity to shoot with a Steyr LP10. WOW, it fit like a glove and my 7 shots produced a nice group that would fit inside the 8 ring. I'm pretty sure that the Steyr LP10 will remain on the top of my list for first purchase.

(I'll be a patcher rather than a competitor at the upcoming ACT Champs)

My instructor has been monitoring my postings and gave me a list of Aussie Web sites. Looks like the market isn't quite as small as I had feared. A few pistols out there including the Hammerli 208 and Unique DE69U. I see an IZH-35M going new for a reasonable price as well and the Match Gun MG2 appears to be much cheaper than the AW93 (and I agree it has a nice high tech look)