TargetTalk

What is the deal on lead dust with an air pistol? Is it safe to shoot in my basement?

Jim

Do you have kids? If yes, what age(s)? A lot of the issues with lead deal with brain development. Brain development in children is one of the biggest risk factors.

If you don't have kids, are you going to have them? Does your wife or girlfriend live with you? The other item is potential reproductive issues that lead can cause. Although it would take a relatively good amount to cause reproductive issues with you and your wife/girlfriend.

Is this an unfinished part of your basement? Or is this an area that people will hang out in, consistently?

Understanding these issues should help create a baseline for the problems it might cause and how serious it could be.

Short of you having your dinner table positioned under your pellet trap, it's probably going to be safe. Your answers will tell.

Oz

One more reason to dry fire. ;)

bentrod wrote:What is the deal on lead dust with an air pistol? Is it safe to shoot in my basement?

Jim

In short, I'd say yes it almost certainly is. It is however up to you to see how much lead accumulates and minimise any dust created or disturbed. For your own peace of mind you mind want to have your blood lead concentration measured after a couple of months shooting etc, and take it from there.

Rob.

In my opinion, this whole subject of lead contaminated air, is vastly overblown. Lead, by it's high molecular weight, is too heavy to remain in air, even in dust form. It vaporizes at over 800ºF., above the average casting temperature. Other than by being shot, lead is ingested primarily by handling bullets or pellets, and then eating, or putting fingers in mouth, without first washing. You may find the following true story interesting:

Back when I was a police officer, in the late sixties, our NYPD range officers were given blood tests to check their lead levels. These came back slightly elevated. Other than our outdoor range at Rodman's Neck, all our ranges are indoor, basement ranges. Since we were getting our Remington and Peters ammo from DuPont, we contacted them to see what could be done to reduce the lead contamination in the range. Being the holder of the Teflon patents, they coated some bullets with it, and sent them to us for testing. It's our normal procedure for the ballistics lab to test all ammunition, for penetration. It was found these bullets easily penetrated our bullet resistant Kevlar vests, and someone contacted the Daily News city desk with this information. The rest is history. With their flair for sensationalism, they named them "Cop Killer Bullets", and plastered it all over the front page. These bullets were never available to the public, only enough being made for testing, but the media picked up the story, and it was broadcast all over the country. Subsequently, Teflon coated bullets were outlawed.

The testing was discontinued, when it was discovered that the source of the lead contamination, wasn't from the bullets at all, but from the lead styfnate primers.

And there you have the rest of the story.
Paul

Good story, Paul. I remember my sister and brother-in-law saying the NRA supported "cop killer" bullets because the gun control idiots wanted to ban all bullets that had any jacket over the lead. The NRA stood up to them or none of us would have copper jacketed bullets today.

Paul, do our .22 rimfire cartridges have lead in the primer?
Thanks!
Ben

Oz wrote:.... A lot of the issues with lead deal with brain development. Brain development in children is one of the biggest risk factors....

I'm sure a few reading this remember when 'lead' became a newspeak word in the early 70's. Touchy-feely people from the 60's wormed their way into government and mandated many silly regulations to protect us all from ourselves. Since then, industries have been created and the money has flowed to support the new laws, and the U.S. educational system has indoctrinated our kids with the false fears. The real brain development issues with children are their naive parents and the crap they watch endlessly on television.

I don't know, Ben. I seem to remember, that one manufacturer, maybe Federal, had introduced "safer" ammo with non lead styphnate primers. Federal has since been bought out by CCI, and I haven't seen anything more about the ammo. I used to use their Lightning (510) for practice in my TOZ, and the 711's and 900's matches. Still using what I have left of these for matches, and their re-labeled to Champion, 510's for practice. Maybe someone else on this board has knowledge.
Paul

bentrod asked, "What is the deal on lead dust with an air pistol? Is it safe to shoot in my basement?"

I've been doing this for years in my unfinished basement. As long as one doesn't smoke, eat, etc. with lead dust on his or her hands, he/ she should be ok. I use rubber gloves when cleaning my pellet trap. I clean/wash my hands with D-Lead products. It would probably be prudent for me to wet mop my basement floor once in a while with D-Lead products. I shoot firearms at an indoor range once a week, as well as, all the basement pellet shooting. I had my blood level checked a while back and it wasn't bad. Handling cleaning media and shaking out the media from the brass polisher probably contributes the most to lead in the body. Just use common sense and keep yourself and your shooting and reloading areas clean!

Probably more pollutants and contaminants from walking in the street. Less time worrying and more time shooting is what improves scores and satisfaction....go ahead and be a devil...shoot in your basement.

deadeyedick wrote:Probably more pollutants and contaminants from walking in the street. Less time worrying and more time shooting is what improves scores and satisfaction....go ahead and be a devil...shoot in your basement.

Great post! Wish I'd said it.
Paul

I shoot indoors between matches, and have been given a new pellet that is made of Tin, weight 7g called Triple P.
I am not a great shot now, being 84yrs but these pellets are great.
I know when I have shot well and these pellets give a one hole group.
As Tin is lighter than Lead, the pellet is slightly longer, would they be the answer, no Lead dust. I intend to use them on Sunday at the BPC meeting at the Roberts Range. I shoot a FWB 103.

Here's a comparison. Earlier in the year I was shooting my .22 in a bullseye league one day a week and practicing about 3 days a week. I had blood work done in April and asked the doctor to check my lead level. It came back very high - double the upper exposure limit. I took off 4 months from shooting and then had another blood test. This time I was below the maximum lead exposure limit. During this layoff I shot my airpistol in my basement 3-4 time per week. So my lead level decreased significantly while shooting the air pistol. I am very careful to scrub my hands thoroughly after handling pellets. It is my understanding that the problem with ammo is the smoke from the primer.

jj

Well thats a worry. Just how much shooting might then be a concern for ones health?

From an OH&S perspective then should shooters not have fans behind them (perhaps floor based pointed up) to ensure that the smoke/gases from the expended shells is kept away from them or extraction fans above them to draw the gases away (or would this be overkill)?

Just how much live fire training is healthy?

Cheers

David

PS - I always really wanted to just do AP - but the .22 disciplines are great fun.

Well, I am doing it.

Now, somethings I have noticed: I shoot about the same scores with AP at 10 m as I do my .22 pistol SF at 50', about 84 average now.

I started BE last March, I was using an UltraDot on my .22 and irons on my Baer .45, I was averaging about 830/900 with .22 w/UD and shooting at least 100 less with the irons on my .45. So I took the UD off the .22, and will shoot this way until I leg out or die -- I am 71 so its about even odds.

My scores with the .22 W/O UD are about the same as I shoot with my .45 with out UD. So, I feel the improvements I make with my AP shooting should improve my scores across the board: .22, 9mm and .45.

Next move: get an electric target turner and work on 1 shot rapid fire drills with my AP this winter.

higginsdj wrote:Well thats a worry. Just how much shooting might then be a concern for ones health?

From an OH&S perspective then should shooters not have fans behind them (perhaps floor based pointed up) to ensure that the smoke/gases from the expended shells is kept away from them or extraction fans above them to draw the gases away (or would this be overkill)?

Just how much live fire training is healthy?

All the indoor ranges I have ever shot in have large air handling systems. Typically, fresh air is brought in behind the shooter and exhausted downrange. Commercial ranges here in the U.S. are required to meet government standards for air flow velocity, volume, etc. Not sure whether private clubs need to meet government standards, but I know the system in use at my club creates a nice breeze. Hard to keep the range warm in winter :-(. In any case, anyone who shoots at an indoor range more than a few hours/week, ought to have their Pb level checked.
In over 50 years of shooting and reloading, I have never had a problem with excessive Pb level in my blood.

No system at my club. The firing line and spectator area is 'indoor'/covered but the range is open to the elements. Most of the breeze/wind I have experienced to date is into the shooter so the 'fumes'/gases are blown straight into the shooter and spectators faces......

higginsdj wrote:No system at my club. The firing line and spectator area is 'indoor'/covered but the range is open to the elements. Most of the breeze/wind I have experienced to date is into the shooter so the 'fumes'/gases are blown straight into the shooter and spectators faces......

They are discussing Air Pistol and indoor ranges - when did Canberra National take the roof off the downrange area of the 10m range?

Spencer

Yes - we drifted off topic - sorry Spencer.