Tau 8 review and critique of review
Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:54 am
Found this and thought I would share
the Tau 8 review is here
http://topgun-airguns.com/TAU8(MK8).html
the critique from Gary8 pasted below
With due respect for Rada, while I was anxiously waiting for a review, this is a half-decent but flawed review. Some of the broad statements are not valid, because the other tier-1 match air pistols are not compared, yet the statement is made such that you would think those pistols don't exist or are irrelevant. The missing comparisons are: Steyr LP10, Morini 162EI and 162MI, FWB P44, and Anschutz LP@. I understand comparing against the Walther LP300, but not the Aeron 101 Spider. For what it is claimed, a more valid comparison would be with the Steyr LP10 and the Morini 162EI.
"Accuracy should be the first in all 10m pistols, the nod I would give to the Tau-8. Test target which comes with the pistols will not allow a pellet to fall through. The LP-300 and the A101 are slightly larger. I was trying to think how I can replicate this but I can not."
Test targets are NOT a factory selected BEST match between pellet and barrel. They are just an indicator that the pistol can shoot to specification. And a sample size of 1 pistol, is not a valid sample to base a general statement that one pistol is more accurate than another.
You indeed can do this test...properly, but it will require a pistol vise, to securely clamp the pistols so they will NOT move between shots. Then go through MANY different pellets to find which one shoots the tightest group. And only when you have found the tightest group can you make a valid comparison.
"I also will have to give the accuracy nod to the Tau-8 since it has a polygon rifled barrel. Which means the pellet comes out of the barrel smooth and not engraved which places more drag on the pellet."
The comment about the accuracy of the polygon barrel is a statement w/o supporting fact. If a polygon rifled barrel is so good, then why aren't LOTs of them used in match competition of both air and powder guns. And I seem to recall that certain pistol manufacturers do not recommend shooting LEAD bullets in their polygon barrels.
As for pellet drag, a match pellet is a wadcutter. How much worse can it get for aerodynamic drag. OK it can get worse (damaged, defective, distorted, or miss-shaped pellets), however you do NOT shoot that kind of pellet at ANY match. More aerodynamic drag does not necessarily equal less accuracy. We are shooting at 10 meters, not 40 yards.
So a blanket statement that the TAU-8 is more accurate than the Walther LP300 was done w/o actually doing a shoot-off, but only based on a test target and a supposed advantage of a polygon barrel.
Now, as for practical accuracy. The 10 ring on the International (ISSF) air pistol target is 11.5mm in diameter. Does a 1/2 mm difference in the group size make a difference? I contend, only if you are shooting at the high-masters international/olympic level.
"Now I have to return to the muzzle jump. I am so reluctant to call this recoil I will just call it muzzle raise. The only 10 m pistols which do not have any muzzle raise are the single stroke pneumatics. Spring pistols even the FWB-65 has some, stands to reason. But the PCP pistols do have some small muzzle raise but it is there. Walther uses a counter moving piston and the raise is very small. But it has a springy sound to it, again small but it is there. The A101 uses the compensator to get rid of the climb. The Tau-8 has ZERO climb, it is done with the regulator in the pistol any residue is taken up by the compensator. But I am willing to bet there will be ZERO climb even if the compensator was not there."
I have a SSP (a Pardini), and it does have a small amount of "muzzle raise." So the statement that "the only 10 m pistols which do not have any muzzle raise are the single stroke pneumatics," is false.
The Steyr LP10 and the FWB P44 both have recoil "absorbers." But w/o comparing against them, you cannot make a presumption that they have a muzzle raise. And I fail to see how the sound of the Walthers recoil absorber affects the muzzle raise.
"Best for last the trigger. This is one of the finest ones I have shot to date. And I have tried some very fine triggers indeed. In fact I will go on a limb and say it is so close to an electronic trigger without all the electronics. Also set at the factory and it is set for international competition. The shooter does not need to wonder if his pistol will meet specs prior to shooting major events. Take up is brief, to a positive stop with a very crisp let off and ZERO overtravel. In fact if someone wants something else and takes the trigger out or fiddles with it, the warranty is void."
So the trigger is a "do it my way, take it or leave it" proposition. It cannot be modified to the preference or need of the shooter; single stage vs. 2 stage, weight for each stage, crisp release vs. rolling, zero over-travel vs. over-travel.
And the statement about the shooter not needing to worry if his pistol will meet specs is incorrect. A shooter has to know that the pistol will pass equipment test. If the trigger weight changes over time due to wear, or change in viscosity of lubricant, or other factors, it has to be able to be brought back into spec, or the pistol will not be passed. Or is the trigger weight so far above the minimum 500 grams that there is a huge buffer before it will not pass check?
While "tampering" with the trigger might be a problem for the mass market distributor/warranty station, the inability to make ANY trigger adjustments is likely fatal for serious competition. Example, my match AP triggers are setup for: 2 stage, 520 gram total trigger weight, 50/50 weight on 1st and 2nd stage, rolling release, with over-travel.
In summary, the review makes a case for the TAU-8, but the comparison and logic are seriously flawed. To make such broad statements w/o comparing to the major tier-1 air pistols is a grossly flawed comparison.
the Tau 8 review is here
http://topgun-airguns.com/TAU8(MK8).html
the critique from Gary8 pasted below
With due respect for Rada, while I was anxiously waiting for a review, this is a half-decent but flawed review. Some of the broad statements are not valid, because the other tier-1 match air pistols are not compared, yet the statement is made such that you would think those pistols don't exist or are irrelevant. The missing comparisons are: Steyr LP10, Morini 162EI and 162MI, FWB P44, and Anschutz LP@. I understand comparing against the Walther LP300, but not the Aeron 101 Spider. For what it is claimed, a more valid comparison would be with the Steyr LP10 and the Morini 162EI.
"Accuracy should be the first in all 10m pistols, the nod I would give to the Tau-8. Test target which comes with the pistols will not allow a pellet to fall through. The LP-300 and the A101 are slightly larger. I was trying to think how I can replicate this but I can not."
Test targets are NOT a factory selected BEST match between pellet and barrel. They are just an indicator that the pistol can shoot to specification. And a sample size of 1 pistol, is not a valid sample to base a general statement that one pistol is more accurate than another.
You indeed can do this test...properly, but it will require a pistol vise, to securely clamp the pistols so they will NOT move between shots. Then go through MANY different pellets to find which one shoots the tightest group. And only when you have found the tightest group can you make a valid comparison.
"I also will have to give the accuracy nod to the Tau-8 since it has a polygon rifled barrel. Which means the pellet comes out of the barrel smooth and not engraved which places more drag on the pellet."
The comment about the accuracy of the polygon barrel is a statement w/o supporting fact. If a polygon rifled barrel is so good, then why aren't LOTs of them used in match competition of both air and powder guns. And I seem to recall that certain pistol manufacturers do not recommend shooting LEAD bullets in their polygon barrels.
As for pellet drag, a match pellet is a wadcutter. How much worse can it get for aerodynamic drag. OK it can get worse (damaged, defective, distorted, or miss-shaped pellets), however you do NOT shoot that kind of pellet at ANY match. More aerodynamic drag does not necessarily equal less accuracy. We are shooting at 10 meters, not 40 yards.
So a blanket statement that the TAU-8 is more accurate than the Walther LP300 was done w/o actually doing a shoot-off, but only based on a test target and a supposed advantage of a polygon barrel.
Now, as for practical accuracy. The 10 ring on the International (ISSF) air pistol target is 11.5mm in diameter. Does a 1/2 mm difference in the group size make a difference? I contend, only if you are shooting at the high-masters international/olympic level.
"Now I have to return to the muzzle jump. I am so reluctant to call this recoil I will just call it muzzle raise. The only 10 m pistols which do not have any muzzle raise are the single stroke pneumatics. Spring pistols even the FWB-65 has some, stands to reason. But the PCP pistols do have some small muzzle raise but it is there. Walther uses a counter moving piston and the raise is very small. But it has a springy sound to it, again small but it is there. The A101 uses the compensator to get rid of the climb. The Tau-8 has ZERO climb, it is done with the regulator in the pistol any residue is taken up by the compensator. But I am willing to bet there will be ZERO climb even if the compensator was not there."
I have a SSP (a Pardini), and it does have a small amount of "muzzle raise." So the statement that "the only 10 m pistols which do not have any muzzle raise are the single stroke pneumatics," is false.
The Steyr LP10 and the FWB P44 both have recoil "absorbers." But w/o comparing against them, you cannot make a presumption that they have a muzzle raise. And I fail to see how the sound of the Walthers recoil absorber affects the muzzle raise.
"Best for last the trigger. This is one of the finest ones I have shot to date. And I have tried some very fine triggers indeed. In fact I will go on a limb and say it is so close to an electronic trigger without all the electronics. Also set at the factory and it is set for international competition. The shooter does not need to wonder if his pistol will meet specs prior to shooting major events. Take up is brief, to a positive stop with a very crisp let off and ZERO overtravel. In fact if someone wants something else and takes the trigger out or fiddles with it, the warranty is void."
So the trigger is a "do it my way, take it or leave it" proposition. It cannot be modified to the preference or need of the shooter; single stage vs. 2 stage, weight for each stage, crisp release vs. rolling, zero over-travel vs. over-travel.
And the statement about the shooter not needing to worry if his pistol will meet specs is incorrect. A shooter has to know that the pistol will pass equipment test. If the trigger weight changes over time due to wear, or change in viscosity of lubricant, or other factors, it has to be able to be brought back into spec, or the pistol will not be passed. Or is the trigger weight so far above the minimum 500 grams that there is a huge buffer before it will not pass check?
While "tampering" with the trigger might be a problem for the mass market distributor/warranty station, the inability to make ANY trigger adjustments is likely fatal for serious competition. Example, my match AP triggers are setup for: 2 stage, 520 gram total trigger weight, 50/50 weight on 1st and 2nd stage, rolling release, with over-travel.
In summary, the review makes a case for the TAU-8, but the comparison and logic are seriously flawed. To make such broad statements w/o comparing to the major tier-1 air pistols is a grossly flawed comparison.