TargetTalk

Ok, how do they break the tie for the 8th spot in the finals? Do USA rules follow the Olympic rules?

Count back.

7.12.1 Individual Ties
7.12.1.1 All scores will be broken for ties after the Qualification stage, except for perfect scores.
7.12.2 Ties will be broken to decide the order of ranking as follows:
7.12.2.1 the highest score in the last ten shot series working backward by 10 shot series until the tie is broken;
7.12.2.2 the highest number of 10’s, 9’s, 8’s, etc.;
7.12.2.3 the highest number of inner tens;
7.12.2.4 if any ties remain, the shooters must be given the same ranking and must be listed in alphabetical order using the shooter’s family
names.
7.12.2.5 For entry to the Finals, the classification for the first eight (8) places will be made according to the above count back rules.

You forgot the real killers Spencer.

7.12.2.5.1 A drawing of lots by the Classification Jury will determine Finals start positions when:
7.12.2.5.1.1 several shooters obtain the maximum score in a Qualification;
7.12.2.5.1.2 an unbreakable tie occurs among two or more finalists or;
7.12.2.5.1.3 an unbreakable tie occurs among two or more shooters on the last Finals start position (e.g. eighth and ninth place.), to determine who will shoot in the Finals.

So you can be denied the chance to compete for an Olympic medal in the final by the drawing of lots by the Classification Jury. I have always thought this, and its Pistol equivalent (replace the "7" with an "8"), to be the most unfair of all of the ISSF rules.

I remember a discussion around this issue with Dave Parish during our judges course. The suggestion was that such ties be decided by decimal countback.

The problem apparently is that some target systems don't record the decimal scores during qualifying rounds.

David Levene wrote:You forgot the real killers Spencer.

I have yet to see it get that far, though I remember going to the shot furthest from the centre (under very old rules). This 'old' way for pistol and rifle remains in the current RT rules.

The proposed 2009 changes to tie-breaking countback for pistol and rifle should further reduce the chance of a mathematically unbreakable tie.

Does anybody know of the tie-breaking at an ISSF Championship getting to a drawing of lots?

Spencer

ps - I'm glad they dropped the alphabetical listing for equal scores, but then 'T' comes well back in the alphabet.
S

Spencer wrote:Does anybody know of the tie-breaking at an ISSF Championship getting to a drawing of lots?

I'm sure I can remember it happening a few years ago Spencer (I think), but I can't remember where/when/who.

David Levene wrote:

Spencer wrote:Does anybody know of the tie-breaking at an ISSF Championship getting to a drawing of lots?

I'm sure I can remember it happening a few years ago Spencer (I think), but I can't remember where/when/who.

I tend to agree as I recall that there was such an instance, but like you David, my memory isn't so good nowadays ;)

<edit> wasn't in Womens AR was it ???

Rob.

For another "killer", how about you finish qualification in ninth spot and then in the finals one competitor (or more) is disqualified. You've been 'robbed' of the opportunity to shoot in the finals and possibly earn a medal. That must hurt!

So for the finals ex. 8th and 9th place, do they use the count back first then the drawing of lots. or go straight to drawing of lots?

blg wrote:So for the finals ex. 8th and 9th place, do they use the count back first then the drawing of lots. or go straight to drawing of lots?

7.12.2.5 For entry to the Finals, the classification for the first eight (8) places will be made according to the above count back rules.

the drawing of lots only applies if the normal count-back does not break the tie

Spencer