TargetTalk

A comment by Cecil on another topic (viewtopic.php?t=18570) got me thinking and with a little spare time on my hands it also got me calculating. As a result I am pleased to present The Unofficial Camp Perry Super Grand Aggregate Championship!

I dug into the results files and added up the scores for all of the individual competitions at Camp Perry. The original idea included the Air Pistol match, but I don't have those scores and the participation level is extremely low. Maybe I should include it; then I would usually be in the top 10-20 :)

• Maximum Possible Score
  300 - 30x ------ Harry Reeves Match
  300 - 30x ------ Distinguished Revolver
  900 - 90x ------ Preliminary Championship
  2700 - 270x --- Grand Aggregate (22, CF and 45)
  400 - 40x ------ President's 100
  300 - 30x ------ EIC Match
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  4900 - 490x --- Max Possible Super Grand Aggregate

2007 Results

• 1. James R. Lenardson ---------- 4665 - 158x
  2. Lt. Philip W. Hemphill --------- 4664 - 182x
  3. David I. Lange ----------------- 4658 - 164x
  4. Chritstopher Johnson -------- 4655 - 166x
  5. Raymond R. Wallander ------- 4642 - 153x
  6. Keith E. Hanzel ---------------- 4625 - 135x
  7. Ron Steinbrecher ------------- 4591 - 154x
  8. Cpl. Kevin J. Vacura ---------- 4590 - 139x
  9. Richard Kang ------------------ 4569 - 144x
  10. David L. Cooper ------------- 4559 - 139x

2006 Results

• 1. Cpl. Kevin J. Vacura ---------- 4675 - 167x * Current record!
  2. John S. Zurek ----------------- 4650 - 174x
  3. Edwin C. Hall ------------------ 4649 - 150x
  4. James R. Lenardson --------- 4631 - 167x
  5. Gary F. Spear ----------------- 4626 - 142x
  6. Col. Joe Chang --------------- 4620 - 142x
  7. Tony Silva --------------------- 4615 - 155x
  8. Lt. Philip Hemphill ------------ 4612 - 168x
  9. Richard Kang ------------------ 4612 - 155x
  10. Ofc. Greg L. Abraham ------ 4606 - 122x

Results for the top 100 can be downloaded from my website (see link below). I will run the numbers for previous years as time allows, but I have no idea when that will be.

http://sdturner.googlepages.com/campperrysubergrandagg

Steve Turner
Athlete in training for the 2008 UCPSGA Chamionship

What about the NRA Air Pistol Match?

=8^)

Isn't this the first year for the air pistol match to be fired at the National Matches ? I'm with Steve on how they should be included someway. I expect that not all competitors will enter the AP but isn't there some way to include the scores in the total ? Even if the NRA can't come up with a way this is still a giant step in the right direction. Good Shooting Bill Horton

I'd consider dividing by the number of shots to get points per possible shot fired.

James R. Lenardson ---------- 4665 - 158x

4665/490=9.5204081

Better yet add the raw score and X's together like the X's were an eleventh point each. That way the shooter gets credit for a good X count.

(4665+158)/490=9.8428571


Lt. Hemphill, Phillip W. 4664 - 182x

4664/490=9.5183673
(4664+182)/490=9.8897959 <<<The real winner :)


Also this way shooters need not all shoot every or the same matches. Just adjust the shot count accordingly with a certain large minimum of shots to be met in several matches entered. Maybe even include team shoots to meet the minimum. That way a shooter who skips the revolver day can still be in the running.

But there is merit to require all 490 to be fired to be eligible.

This is sort of like we did in Powerlifting tournaments. Total pounds lifted per lift per pound body weight.

Steve:

Thanks for doing the work and calculations. My origional comment was to help promote the new AP matches proposed by the CMP. As mentioned, some shooters don't shoot all the matches. For example, I usually sign up for the revolver matches (to add to the numbers) but don't normally shoot. If we had a Super Grand, I might change my mind.

So, my comment would be to add the AP match (600) as well for a nice round 5500 Super Total Grand Perry Shooting Week Individual Aggegrate. (We could even add the team scores like the CMP does for the Root medal, but that would add another 120 points to 5620 and not be a nice round number. Plus team events require you find 3 others to shoot).

Hey, it just a thought and it's fun to look at. But again, my main purpose was to try and give another reason to hang around Sunday afternoon and shoot the AP matches.

Cecil - I would love to see air pistol get more participation. Every year at CP I submit the suggestion to add International pistol competitions to the National Matches. Shoot them before, after, during, I don't know when they could fit them in the schedule, but I would really like to see International Pistol as part of the Matches. That might encourage more Bullseye shooters to give International a try.

I would like to add the air gun match results to the UCPSGA, if for no other reason than I would move up in the results because, even a 530 score in the Grand Prix would move me up ahead of most of those who did not shoot it.

I don't have electronic versions of the Grand Prix results and finding the printed copies at home would be no easy task. IIRC in 2007 there were no results because a disgruntled employee took or destroyed the data. I know I never received results.

For 2008 since it is a normal squadded match on the program I think it would be reasonable to include it. Also since the CMP is running the match I expect the results to be available online for a long time into the future and will probably be posted within a day or two. That will be nice. I hope the NRA is learning from them.

I thought about adding the team results, but again, not everyone shoots the team matches and because of the way they are reported it would be more work for me to pull the data out, so I decided to just include the individual matches.

Jack - averaging scores is not a bad idea given that so few people shoot all of the event (and even fewer if air pistol is added). I will think about that and maybe add it as a side result. Now that I have the data in a spreadsheet I can play with the numbers a little, however because of typos and differences in the data it still takes a lot of manual editing to get the results.

If I average the scores, how many matches would a person have to shoot to be listed? 50%? 66%? 75%?

I also thought about averaging the finishing position in each of the matches as a percentage of all shooters, since the raw scores will be lower in the ball and revolver matches than in the prelims and 2700, but in the end I thought it was easier to just add up the scores.

I am open to suggestions.

Steve

Steve:

Yes, I'd like to see the Standard, Sport, Free, even Rapid as well. Canton Regional is over the first weekend of July and all us conventional guys try to hit it before Perry. Absolutely a great match and a great club putting it on. It just feels more personal than Perry (but back to the point).

I'll put my 2 cents in with the NRA pistol program guy when I see him again about adding the matches or trying to figure out something. It would be a nice geographic complement to Benning and Colorado! But like you said timing may be problem.

Personally, I'd love so just see a continous squadded match running in parallel with the NRA matches. You know, shoot first relay NRA .22, shoot Standard during the 2nd or 3rd NRA relays and then back for NRA .22 team matches. Man, that would really be a he-man type of shooting week (and probably would not appeal to some). But on the other hand, some people just might shoot only the NRA matches and others might come just for the International matches. And the CMP seem to have the money to set up ranges!!!

Anyway, thanks again for putting together the scores. I agree its an interesting exercise and may even move me to actually shoot the revolver some more. Got the revolver badge already so some other incentive would be nice.

Thanks

Cecil

Cecil - Great idea about the parallel lines for other matches and good luck at Canton. Last year was my first time there, and I agree, it is a great match and a wonderful way to get into the groove for Perry. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time this year.

Thanks for the idea and I will put it forward as a suggestion as well.

Best regards,
Steve

Haha, this is awesome!

Throw in the five guns at the USASNC and you can call it the "Doc Young Championship".

I always pushed for a multi-gun aggregate at the NRA Collegiate Pistol Championships and they ultimately added it a few years after I was finished competing as a collegiate.

For those of you who have shot at Canton, thank you for supporting our match.

For those of you who have yet to shoot there, go. You won't regret it.