TargetTalk

All my pistol shooting friends say they aim somewhere below the target spot, but as I feel it's difficult to be consistent that way, I try to line up the top of the sights with the bottom of the spot.

Also, I have a problem deciding the width of my foresight and the width of the gaps between it and the rear sight.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Welcome and I wish you many years of Great Shooting!

This topic comes up with a fair degree of regularity.

The answer will seem somewhat counter-intuitive; and I wan't blame you for thinking it's a fairy tale.

The inability to accept the following principles is, IMNSHO, the one single roadblock preventing "OK" shooters from becoming "Great" shooters.

So here goes:

1. Any attempts to "line up precisely" the sights and the target will inhibit proper release of the shot, and result in much worse shooting thanwould otherwise be possible.

2. The precise alignment of the front and rear sight, with the front sight in absolutely clear focus (both mental and physical) is of hte utmost importance. Tiny errors in the alignment of the sights results in huge errors of where the muzzle is pointed. Rather large-appearing errors in where those aligned sights are pointed relative to the target can be (to a surprising extent) ignored!

3. That's for the "visual" tasks. As far as technique issues, the absolute dead-calm perfect trigger control (the ability to apply pressure smoothly so as not to disturb the perfect sight alignment) before, during, and after the shot being fired is the most important thing you need to be able to do.

So

As to your specific question/issue, your friends who are aiming at the blank spot beneath the target have decided that given 1-3 above, they are much better off looking at something (a blank surface) that allows them to maximize the alignment of the sights (without distraction) rather than assuming that the visual relationship between the front sight and the blurry target downrange provides any really useful information.

They may be on to something. On the other hand, a lot of really good shooters have developed the technique of pointing pretty much anywhere (including above the target, at the frame, at the 6 O'Clock position, at the target center, at the window frame next to the target, etc.) and are capable of scoring consistently above 95%.

The point is not where your sights are pointing, the point is where the muzzle is pointing.

Enjoy!

Steve Swartz

Oh yes almost forgot- some "experts" in this are suggest that the width of the front sight should be approximately equal to the perceived width of the target, and the amount of light on each side of the front sight should be equal to the amount of light between the top of the front sight and the bottom of the target; about 1/3 the front site width.

Of course, if you are aiming somewhere other than below hte target ignore the point about the gap between top of front site and bottom edge of target.

Steve

Great reply Steve,
You've helped straighten a few things out for another newbie in addition to zembu!
cheers
Matt

To reinforce Mr. Swartz's impeccable advice, if you need convincing of the wisdom of his advice' next time you are at the range, try this. It's most convincing when the target is brightly illuminated.

Use a rest or sandbag or something, to take out unwanted movement. Start with your aim point well below the black target centre. Now slowly raise your aim point and watch the white between the top of the front sight and the bottom of the bull get narrower. At some stage, you would hope that the top of the front sight would 'touch' the bottom of the bull, cleanly obliterating the white space between them, but what is perceived is usually something like the top of the front sight 'pushing up' the bottom of the bull, with a thin white space between them. It is not really possible to be sure when there is perfect alignment between top of front sight and bottom of bull. The alignment can be such that the top of the sight is well inside the bull before the white disappears. This is because of diffraction over the top of the sight. Therefore, it is generally considered better to aim below the black. The task is then to keep the thickness of the white between the top of the front sight and the bottom of the bull consistent.

Sounds too difficult? Actually it's fairly easy, and the spin-off benefits are that it's easier to concentrate on the sights rather than be distracted by the dancing bull and variable target illumination is less of a problem.

You are on to something there Shooting Kiwi. I have been shooting up to now, just as you described. Trying to put the tip of the frontsight an the bottom edge of the black. Groups havent been great. I will try Steve's suggestion now of leaving a gap.

Thanks
Alan

Thanks very much Steve Swartz, for your extensive responses. You covered all of my question and explained it better than any other I've had.

I will try the sight settings and aim points you suggest. I hope to report big improvements later!!!

Thanks also to Shooting Kiwi. You described a very valid experiment. I had been aware of difficulty in distinguishing the exact point of coincidence of the target bottom and the sight top as you explained, but hadn't thought of doing the controlled experiment you described.

One question - what is IMNSHO???

zembu wrote:One question - what is IMNSHO???

In My Not So Humble Opinion

zembu wrote:All my pistol shooting friends say they aim somewhere below the target spot, but as I feel it's difficult to be consistent that way, I try to line up the top of the sights with the bottom of the spot.

Also, I have a problem deciding the width of my foresight and the width of the gaps between it and the rear sight.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Hi Zembu,
I had some trouble with this, and felt that small differences in gap were creating a large vertical spread in my groups. Turns out, I was working too hard on front sight placement on the target and allowing sight alignment to deteriorate. After refocusing on sight alignment, my groups improved, and the vertical sensitivity to gap seems to have gone away.

I tried to use the same gap at the top as the sides, but for some reason my brain doesn't like it, and I usually end up just touching the bottom of the target. In the end, I don't think it makes much difference.

I really struggle to see the front sight. Although I like a narrow gap, for me it needs to be wide enough to allow me to clearly focus on the front sight. I don't much care what the actual width is (at least it doesn't seem to help me one way or the other).

Steve.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your input - when I was trying to keep the top of the sights in line with the bottom of the target, I found that;

1. it was difficult to be steady - but this always applies!
2. second, because the target was blurred, it was difficult to be sure I was at the same place each time - but that also aplies when aiming lower!
3. if I made the iris in my shooting glass smaller to enable me to see the target better, than I was losing concentration on the sight picture. (The most important failing)

Since trying as Steve Swartz advised, I am better, and hope to get better still.

You say you have difficulty seeing the front sight. Are you using shooting glasses? If so you must need a new lens, or if you aren't using them it would be best to get a pair.

To David Levene, Thanks re the meaning of IMNSHO!

Cheers,

Andy

Andy:

I have been shooting for a few years and have done fairly well- it is a continuous, daily struggle to remember (and actually perform!):

1. The most important thing is keeping the sights aligned
2. The most important thing is to keep physical *and* mental focus on the front sight

Those two key principles are very, very counter-intuitive. Your brain will *always* try mightily to simultaneously align front sight, rear sight, and target.

That way lies madness . . . . !

Steve

Thanks again Steve Swartz - by the way - I take it you are not the same Steve as "tenex" Steve.

Having now followed your advice, I feel I have wasted my time for a year, trying to align the top of the sights with the bottom of target.

But - still more improvement needed!

Cheers,

Andy