TargetTalk

Hello Folks

Breathing:

I've been trying shooting each shot after breathing all the way out.

It seems to work well as I find that quite relaxing.

I'm concerned over the science behind how long you can perform after a breath.

Any thoughts?

Raise:
I've watched many international level shooters. Most of them, during a precision stage (either 25M Precision, 10M Air Pistol or Free Pistol) raise above the target and then settle on to their aiming positions.

What is the thinking about this? Why are they raising above? When the gun is lowered, is that a slight breath out thats lowering it or a 'locking of the shoulder' or muscles actually lowering the gun... or something else all together.

I didn't search these two topics as the question just came to mind. Apologies if I'm repeating something thats already been discussed.

OntPstlShooter wrote: I'm concerned over the science behind how long you can perform after a breath.

I think that depends on the person's aerobic capacity which is linked to their level of general fitness. Obviously, a heavy smoker wont have as much puff (pun intended) as a marathon runner. I breath in on the raise and exhale as I drop my arm. I'll always leave a little breath just in case further adjustment is required. If you need to hold on target for more than ~20sec per shot, then maybe you need to look at your stance, etc. as you should be fully aligned once the pistol drops to its on-target position.

OntPstlShooter wrote: When the gun is lowered, is that a slight breath out thats lowering it or a 'locking of the shoulder' or muscles actually lowering the gun... or something else all together.

For me, it's a combination of both. Sometimes I find it easier to make a fine adjustment by releasing some breath versus moving my shoulder/wrist. It's all down to what feels best for you. There's no perfect technique, just one that works consistently for you.

bigred wrote:If you need to hold on target for more than ~20sec per shot, then maybe you need to look at your stance, .....

IMHO that's about 2-3 times as long as it should be.

Unless you are super fit, and possibly even if you are, you are probably past your best at 7-10 seconds.

When you head into oxygen debt, the retina is the first thing to be affected.

It's called hypoxia. There have been discussions on here in the past regarding it. Not only is what your doing during the shot important but what you do between shots to ensure proper oxygenation of the cells and tissues.

What you really want to acheive is a neutral tidal volume (the natural state where the lung is niether expanded nor contracted).

Make sure that you take time and breath deeply between shots.

Here's a link to some relevant research http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ht=hypoxia

Where in Ontario are you shooting?

Try a little experiment so you can see for yourself:

A. Lift up into the target, looking for how quickly you are able to "settle" your pointing area with perfectly aligned sights (total time from initial lift, and time from when you first enter the pointing area)

B. Lift above the target and settle down into your pointing area with perfectly aligned sights; again noting how quickly you are able to achieve the equilibrium settle (total time, and pointing time again)

What do you see?

Also

Try A and B above using alternate breathing technique (1. breath in on up, out on down vs. 2. the opposite)

So out of the 4 possible combinations (A1, A2, B1, B2) which seems more "natural?" Which seems to give you the fastest "time to settle?" Which seems to give you the most "settled" time before oxygen level begins to drop?

I *would* just give you "The Answer," but on important stuff like this don't take anyones word for it- check it out yourself.

However, IMNSHO:

Here's what you should be trying to accomplish with this "Approach Phase" of the shot process: you want to establish optimum conditions for shooting a perfect shot for as long a pause as possible; specifically

- Get settled into pointing area as quickly as possible
- Establish minimum wobbling inside pointing area
- Have enough oxygen to focus intently on sight alignment
- Have all issues (balance, grip, oxygen, heart rate, thought process, etc.) resolved and set aside for optimum concentration

So evaluate technique issues with respect to the Approach Phase using those criteria. Similar criteria exist for Preparation, Terminal and Recovery phases.

Steve Swartz

Richard - thanks for the link - I've got the article and hope to read it tonite. I guess thats what I get for not searching. I'm in Kingston btw.

Steve
I'll give your experiment a try. I've done the lift to the target in the past thinking to try and keep the my raise for both the precision and rapid fire stages of the 25m Sport Pistol match for women the same. It just doesn't seem to settle right though. For precision, I have recently started raising above the target and then I breathe all the way out, hold that (or adjust hight with a little breath in) and begin the squeeze.

I haven't timed my shot process using this method yet because I'm not quite comfortable with it yet but I think its in the 10 - 15 second range - which is getting a bit long.

I really asked this question to see if anyone knew why the top Asians and Central Europeans are doing it. It seems there should be more than its what they like to do.

Also because of the oxygen thing.

Anyway - opinions in this case are welcome. I like to hear what others have to say and I'll figure out what works for me. I just need ideas.

Richard H wrote:It's called hypoxia...
Here's a link to some relevant research http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ht=hypoxia..

In the discussion of the above link Dr. Bereznov makes another statement regarding the effect of holding the breath vs. visual acuity.

The journal "Scientific American" covered in its August 2007 issue neurological insights ("how tiny twitches preserve vision..") about how we see. Here is the link (click on the cover of the journal on the left side to read the article in pdf) http://www.neuralcorrelate.com/smc_lab/

For an even more exhaustive/exhausting coverage look here: http://www.webvision.med.utah.edu/

What works for me:

1. Get stance, weight, etc. settled while the gun is on the bench.

2. Look at (and focus) on the target, imagine the sights aligned on it, breaking the shot.

3. Bring the gun up, take a fairly deep breath. As soon as it lifts off the bench, I try to notice my wrist muscles kicking in. This seems to help me isolate them.

4. As the gun passes through the target, adjust focus so that front sight is sharp, and follow it up. I probably start a foot above the target.

5. While above target, settle down the wrist, align the sights, create and isolate tension in the wrist. Search for perfect position on the trigger, but don't take up first stage yet. I've recently discovered that if I take up any slack this early, it winds up being part of my overall grip, rather than separate.

6. Relax my shoulders and lungs, not consciously breathing out, just relaxing the muscles, while lowering into the target area. Pause at the top of the black, take out the first stage of the trigger.

7. Let gravity take it from there. It seems that my whole body just settles that remaining bit.

8. Like the sights, break the shot, leave it up to follow through.

I'm not coached, or even that good (average about 90%) but I've been working on this for a few years now, and this procedure seems to afford me focus on each little bit, but be quick enough (around 7 sec.) that I don't wear out quickly. I think one of the keys is to have fixed and forgotten as much as possible before you enter the black. Regarding breathing, that's having enough oxygen that you don't feel any need, but also not maintaining any "hold" on your lungs.

H.