I shot my new AW 93 in a match today (not International, a Police Course) and did pretty well. What I discovered is that my old standby Aguila Standard Velocity does not work well in it. Many failures to extract all the way, causing jams.
I switched to CCI Std. Vel. and it worked flawlessly... ended up with 885 X44 for second place.
Any comments from AW 93 users on what ammo it likes?
Tillman
New (to me) AW 93
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Ernie Rodriguez
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:50 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Ammo
Of the brands you would consider using,and are reliable in functioning,I would test ammo from sandbag at 50 yds and use the most accurate.
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Mike Taylor
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:03 pm
- Location: Okanagan Valley, British Columbia
Ammo for AW93
Searching old threads will reveal that some users have reported a 'tight' chamber in their AW93. I dropped a round of each brand of ammo I had into the chamber of my 'used' (but apparently unfired) AW93. Only Federal 711 and Lapua Standard Club dropped in freely. Eley Target Pistol (yellow box) and PMC Scoremaster (black and silver box) required a light push to seat. Remington Target (standard velocity) in the yellow plastic box of 100 required a moderate push to seat. The other ammo I have tried, Winchester T22 (whitebox with red lettering), Remington Target in the green & blue box of 50, and CCI SV in blue/white paper box of 50, all required a firm push to seat.
I use the PMC and the Eley most often; if they give any feeding or extraction difficulty, I switch to the Lapua until I can clean the chamber.
Mike T.
I use the PMC and the Eley most often; if they give any feeding or extraction difficulty, I switch to the Lapua until I can clean the chamber.
Mike T.
My AW93 (SN 47xx) has no problems with any ammo I've tried. I shoot mostly Aguilla SE indoors at 50' and SK Standard Plus outdoors, but I've also shot Eley (forget which ones I've tried in the FWB), Remington Target (Eley), Aguilla PM and CCI SV with no problems.
I have had no problems with chambering or extracting, unless it gets too dirty. Somtime between 500 and 1000 rds I will start getting misfires (round not seated all the way) or FTE (empty case 1/2 way out of chamber).
With any 22, if I get those kinds of failures, I clean the chamber with a bent 25cal brush and then pull a wet patch and a dry patch down the barrel. That usually fixes the problem.
Quite often after I clean the chamber of the FWB I get 1 or 2 FTF or FTE in the first 10 rounds. After that it is smooth sailing for the next few hundred rounds.
Regards,
Steve Turner
I have had no problems with chambering or extracting, unless it gets too dirty. Somtime between 500 and 1000 rds I will start getting misfires (round not seated all the way) or FTE (empty case 1/2 way out of chamber).
With any 22, if I get those kinds of failures, I clean the chamber with a bent 25cal brush and then pull a wet patch and a dry patch down the barrel. That usually fixes the problem.
Quite often after I clean the chamber of the FWB I get 1 or 2 FTF or FTE in the first 10 rounds. After that it is smooth sailing for the next few hundred rounds.
Regards,
Steve Turner
"...my old standby Aguila Standard Velocity does not work well in it. Many failures to extract all the way, causing jams. "
Aguila is weak cycling in a few different BE guns I have. Works fine in some, weak in others. So it's a gun-ammo combination.
SK standard and Wolf are even a bit weaker cycling.
Strangely the cycling force of these weaker ammos is not exactly proportional to the velocity out the barrel. Pressure curve and all that, no doubt.
Aguila is weak cycling in a few different BE guns I have. Works fine in some, weak in others. So it's a gun-ammo combination.
SK standard and Wolf are even a bit weaker cycling.
Strangely the cycling force of these weaker ammos is not exactly proportional to the velocity out the barrel. Pressure curve and all that, no doubt.
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
The issue of AW93 and failures to extract is already well documented here - some of that documentation comes from me. I've since sold my AW93 and found the purchaser couldn't make it function reliably. In the end, FWB replaced the barrel under warranty. If you have a gun that doesn't function well you need to aggressively pursue both your dealer and FWB. At first FWB would not acknowledge the problem. Then when I confronted them with the facts (that I had witnessed THEIR factory techs lapping the chamber of a team-mates AW93 at a World Cup event) they finally fessed up and sent me the drawings for the lapping tool. I made my own, lapped the chamber like crazy, but it still was far too tight. It needed to be reamed. FWB eventually chose the easier path of replacing the barrel.
Whatever you do, don't let either your dealer or FWB try a snowjob on you wherin they say there's no such thing as a problem with a FWB pistol. That's hogwash and you don't have to put up with it!
Whatever you do, don't let either your dealer or FWB try a snowjob on you wherin they say there's no such thing as a problem with a FWB pistol. That's hogwash and you don't have to put up with it!
AW93
Mark-
Sorry that you could not make the gun function - to the point you had to get rid of it.
I am pleased to say that, having put 500 rounds of CCI SV through the AW93, I have not had any failures of any sort. That trend should continue.
Just a side note... My Marvel 22 Conversions (I have two) will not work with Eley Black Box at all, yet do just fine with Aguila SV. My Giles High Standard will eat any old thing. My 208s will not work with Black Box either.
Tillman
Sorry that you could not make the gun function - to the point you had to get rid of it.
I am pleased to say that, having put 500 rounds of CCI SV through the AW93, I have not had any failures of any sort. That trend should continue.
Just a side note... My Marvel 22 Conversions (I have two) will not work with Eley Black Box at all, yet do just fine with Aguila SV. My Giles High Standard will eat any old thing. My 208s will not work with Black Box either.
Tillman
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HannesGM
Unfortunately, I have to confirm Mark's experiences. Already posted about this in another thread. After reading about Mark's experiences, and having continuing difficulties with my AW93, I contacted Feinwerkbau.
Their reply was that I should send my gun back to my local dealer for polishing of the chamber and a check on the extractor. My guess is that this will be a temporary fix at best, since I right now get FTEs every 10 rounds or so, which require use of a pair of pliers to get the spent case out of the chamber.
Would it help pointing to your experiences, Mark, so that I can get my barrel replaced, too? Is reaming the chamber a good alternative, is it cheaper (i.e. covered by warrantry)? Does it affect accuracy in any way?
Regards,
Hannes
Their reply was that I should send my gun back to my local dealer for polishing of the chamber and a check on the extractor. My guess is that this will be a temporary fix at best, since I right now get FTEs every 10 rounds or so, which require use of a pair of pliers to get the spent case out of the chamber.
Would it help pointing to your experiences, Mark, so that I can get my barrel replaced, too? Is reaming the chamber a good alternative, is it cheaper (i.e. covered by warrantry)? Does it affect accuracy in any way?
Regards,
Hannes
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
Hannes,
I'm not sure it would do you any good to use my name as a reference because the barrel on "my" pistol actually was not replaced until it was in the hands of a new owner.
If your cartridge cases are sticking that hard in the chamber then I would suggest the FWB recommendation will not remove sufficient material to prevent further malfunctions.
If I were in your position I would politely suggest to your FWB dealer that you will leave it up to him and FWB to work out what needs to be done, but that within a reasonable amount of time you need to have an AW93 in your hands that will function with most, if not all, reputable brands of ammunition. This is not an unreasonable request. They will likely start by lapping the chamber, but after spending many hours doing this and with the gun still jamming, they will either ream the chamber or replace the barrel. Either one of these jobs is not easy because the barrel has to be removed.
I'm not sure it would do you any good to use my name as a reference because the barrel on "my" pistol actually was not replaced until it was in the hands of a new owner.
If your cartridge cases are sticking that hard in the chamber then I would suggest the FWB recommendation will not remove sufficient material to prevent further malfunctions.
If I were in your position I would politely suggest to your FWB dealer that you will leave it up to him and FWB to work out what needs to be done, but that within a reasonable amount of time you need to have an AW93 in your hands that will function with most, if not all, reputable brands of ammunition. This is not an unreasonable request. They will likely start by lapping the chamber, but after spending many hours doing this and with the gun still jamming, they will either ream the chamber or replace the barrel. Either one of these jobs is not easy because the barrel has to be removed.
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Guest
Thanks for the reply. I guess things are more relaxed when it comes to to these kind of things in Norway, as I had a good and long talk with the gunsmith I handed the gun to some days ago. All ok warrantry-wise, FWB left it in the hands of my local dealer and he offered me to have the gun checked up and fixed by a very good gunsmith, he'll be footing the bill no matter what he'll do.
After talking with said gunsmith, he'll first lap the chamber, check extractor and magazines, then test-fire the gun with the ammunition it worked least well with (Eley Standard), and if that won't do, he'll ream the chamber until it does.
Guess in two to three weeks I'll know whether or not it worked. But at least it seems FWB is now more aware of these kinds of troubles, since I found two more persons with the same problems in Norway who had the chambers reamed under warrantry.
After talking with said gunsmith, he'll first lap the chamber, check extractor and magazines, then test-fire the gun with the ammunition it worked least well with (Eley Standard), and if that won't do, he'll ream the chamber until it does.
Guess in two to three weeks I'll know whether or not it worked. But at least it seems FWB is now more aware of these kinds of troubles, since I found two more persons with the same problems in Norway who had the chambers reamed under warrantry.
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
I should clarify one point... I didn't get rid of my AW93 because I couldn't make it function, as was concluded by another poster above. I was able to lap the chamber to the point where it functioned reliably with several brands of ammo, but not all ammo. I opted to sell this pistol because it simply didn't suit my needs in the Rapid Fire event. In Sport pistol it was an excellent match for my abilities, but in RF its recovery time was just too slow to suit my particular shooting style. Others have shot this gun successfully in RF, but I was unable to make it work for me. This is an important point for those considering a pistol purchase - you can't go completely on the recommendation of another person; you have to shoot the gun yourself to know if it will work for you.
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Walter Young
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:05 pm
Before reaming the barrel, you can check some other things.
Normal operation of the AW is for the extracted brass to scrape on the next round in the magazine. If the mags are out of spec with the rounds in the mag sitting too high, it can cause the extractor to jump off the brass. Sometimes the ejector can get nudged out of flush with the side of the frame, causing the magazine to sit inward a little. This can cause the slide to cycle a bit slower and also make the extractor jump off the brass.
If the extractor is damaged it will do the same.
Good waxy bullets help.
As to the OP, Aguilla ammo has a curved rim lip compared to other ammo. Check the rim lip. Other ammo has a good flat area for the extractor to grab and hold.
To tighten or tune the recoil characteristics you can change out the small buffer springs and replacing them with a cut down recoil spring.
I haven't done that, but it can be done.
Like SteveT, my gun is a 47XX. It eats just about everything, but I have the same experience with one or two FTE's sometimes after cleaning the chamber and then it's fine for about a brick. Also like SteveT, Aguilla SE works fine, but for me their standard sometimes doesn't. I'm using SK standard plus most of the time and it works well.
Feinwerkbau says most people have problems because they don't clean the rear area under the sights and it gets crud that doesn't allow full cycling. The brass doesn't eject and it gets stuck between the slide and breech.
Other than that the thing's a race car.
Normal operation of the AW is for the extracted brass to scrape on the next round in the magazine. If the mags are out of spec with the rounds in the mag sitting too high, it can cause the extractor to jump off the brass. Sometimes the ejector can get nudged out of flush with the side of the frame, causing the magazine to sit inward a little. This can cause the slide to cycle a bit slower and also make the extractor jump off the brass.
If the extractor is damaged it will do the same.
Good waxy bullets help.
As to the OP, Aguilla ammo has a curved rim lip compared to other ammo. Check the rim lip. Other ammo has a good flat area for the extractor to grab and hold.
To tighten or tune the recoil characteristics you can change out the small buffer springs and replacing them with a cut down recoil spring.
I haven't done that, but it can be done.
Like SteveT, my gun is a 47XX. It eats just about everything, but I have the same experience with one or two FTE's sometimes after cleaning the chamber and then it's fine for about a brick. Also like SteveT, Aguilla SE works fine, but for me their standard sometimes doesn't. I'm using SK standard plus most of the time and it works well.
Feinwerkbau says most people have problems because they don't clean the rear area under the sights and it gets crud that doesn't allow full cycling. The brass doesn't eject and it gets stuck between the slide and breech.
Other than that the thing's a race car.
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bjsulla
Here is a link to a ammo test done with an AW93. It is in swedish but the target pictures is intresting.
http://www.lundspk.se/e107_plugins/foru ... c.php?2726
http://www.lundspk.se/e107_plugins/foru ... c.php?2726
Top post "bjsulla". As you know, GBR has very limited time for overseas training and limited opportunity to test. We have been using S&K Standard Plus for most of the training this year and results have been very good. Seeing the pictures of generally what is possible is illuminating.
Do any comparative tests exist for AW93 using Eley Tenex for semi-auto?
Top posts from Mark and Dave et al re suggestions for design and use of the chamber tool, we made one from 5mm diameter brass rod cutting a slot in the top and using this to anchor in the aggregate paper wrapped around to gently open up the chamber. We will polish the chambers next time with fine paste. I used a GPRS data card from the range in Switzerland to research this forum.
I did find applying Breakfree to the first brass case in the magazine obviated feeding/extraction issues but I don’t want to rely upon this.
Do any comparative tests exist for AW93 using Eley Tenex for semi-auto?
Top posts from Mark and Dave et al re suggestions for design and use of the chamber tool, we made one from 5mm diameter brass rod cutting a slot in the top and using this to anchor in the aggregate paper wrapped around to gently open up the chamber. We will polish the chambers next time with fine paste. I used a GPRS data card from the range in Switzerland to research this forum.
I did find applying Breakfree to the first brass case in the magazine obviated feeding/extraction issues but I don’t want to rely upon this.
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Hagen von Tronje
Am still waiting on my AW93 to return from the gunsmith. He said he'd check both magazines, the extractor and the dimensions of the chamber, so I'm confident that the problem will be found. Incidentally, those were the exact same things Feinwerkbau suggested to alleviate the problem.Walter Young wrote:Before reaming the barrel, you can check some other things.
Normal operation of the AW is for the extracted brass to scrape on the next round in the magazine. If the mags are out of spec with the rounds in the mag sitting too high, it can cause the extractor to jump off the brass. Sometimes the ejector can get nudged out of flush with the side of the frame, causing the magazine to sit inward a little. This can cause the slide to cycle a bit slower and also make the extractor jump off the brass.
If the extractor is damaged it will do the same.
Good waxy bullets help.
I don't think the problem can be solved with waxy bullets, the Eley Standard are VERY waxy, and wouldn't cycle at all, ever.
And, yes, I don't want to rely on using breakfree on every first round to guarantee that the gun functions... I paid a fair amount of money (even more so, since I'm a student...), and I think I can expect the gun to work without any ad hoc measures.
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Bill Freyfogle
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:30 am
- Location: Bellevue, WA
Re: New (to me) AW 93
Tillman,tleddy wrote:I shot my new AW 93 in a match today (not International, a Police Course) and did pretty well. What I discovered is that my old standby Aguila Standard Velocity does not work well in it. Many failures to extract all the way, causing jams.
I switched to CCI Std. Vel. and it worked flawlessly... ended up with 885 X44 for second place.
Any comments from AW 93 users on what ammo it likes?
Tillman
I've had an AW93 for eight years now. The only ammo that it refuses to feed is the old Aguila ammo and whenever I leave my ammo out in the hot sun, some of the lubes turn very sticky and refuse to feed. Specifically, Eley ammo left in the hot sun will turn so sticky it just won't work. Some of the ammo my gun likes is:
Eley Target Pistol
RWS (all)
Wolf (all)
Most CCI Standard Velocity, Green Tag and Pistol Match (some batches have too much lube)
PMC Scoremaster
SK Jagd (all)
and most Federal match ammo.
I use my AW93 for Bullseye shooting. Up until recently, I had an excellent gunsmith cut .22 dovetails into the barrel and mounted a red dot using .22 rings. Four months ago I found out about the Breznovich scope mount and switched to it. Much better balance! The gun is now lighter and balances very well. I put Nill grips on my AW93 and like them better than the old factory grips.
Hope you enjoy your AW93, I sure do!
Bill