1996, 2000, 2004 - anyone make finals?

[Alex_c]

Has any US pistol shooter made the finals (top 8) in the last 3 Olympics?

Yes I'd look it up myself but the results are in a format that's not readable on this computer.

[rrpc]

No.

[Alex_c]

That's kind of what I thought ......

Any theories, anyone?

[Mike M.]

American pistol shooting efforts are too diffused. Between IPSC, IDPA, and NRA Bullseye, there just isn't much effort left for the Olympic disciplines.

[Alex_c]

They pour tons of money into olympic pistol, world cups and one major event each year (worlds, pan ams, etc) besides the olympics, there are all those Chinese and Bulgarians to try to beat, it seems like there's a good environment for those who want to win.

A resident athlete at the OTC is getting room, board, etc all they have to do is train train train. The latest copies of UIT Journal etc are lying around there, it's easy to keep up with who's shooting what. .22's and pellets - free. Those who are not residents but make the national team are still given a lot of help - plane tickets to tryouts and nationals etc.

What I'm driving at here is, Is there a sort of feeling, conscious or not, that all the shooter has to do is beat the other US shooters at the characteristic much lower US score levels and who cares that they get 60th or something at the big match? Doesn't matter, they go to go, and got the neato jacket?

[Guest]

The wider the pyramid base, the higher the peak. Look at the numbers.

[2650 Plus]

Alex c If you happen to be younger than say 35 why dont you give it a shot. . Obviously ,it can't be that tough to make the team and get one of those fine jackets. The vital information to get your scores up to the competitive level is scattered through out these pages and it sure is fun. If youre older than 50, you can still cheer the young fellows on. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Guest]

national team members do not get funding to nationals, and not all of them get funding to selection matches or 3x air matches.

[Alex_c]

When I was on the team I seem to remember getting plane tickets and a hotel room for Nationals. Also, same for the tryouts that counted for making the team (for those who don't "go in the front door" by medaling at Nationals). Has the budget changed?

And why do we have Excellent rifle shooters and shotgun shooters. We have many rifle and shotgun sports to compete with International rifle and shotgun, yes seem to have good enough shooters to make finals and win medals in rifle and shotgun.

If anything pistol is the most "accessable" since pistol ranges take up the least room on average, there are lots of them around, and pistol shooting is the cheapest of the International shooting events. True, not enough people know International pistol exists, it needs more publicity.

Nothing would do that like an Olympic medal.

[Guest]

don't know when you were on the team but the way it is now, only resident athletes get funding for nationals. since we don't have any resident athletes for pistol no one gets funding. and funding for the other matches is not guaranteed. and maybe we don't have as many young pistol shooters because it's not as "PC" as rifle or shotgun?? and we do have some excellent pistol shooters in the US.

[Mike M.]

It's not a matter of funding, it's a matter of the width of the base.

In shotgun, there are not TOO many differences between the international and the U.S. disciplines. The skill sets and equipment are transferable.

In rifle, the US loses a fair number of shooters to the high-power disciplines. However, smallbore is pretty well smallbore whether it is NRA or ISSF. The skill sets and equipment are still transferable.

In pistol, the story is vastly different.

First, you have the fact that a high proportion of pistol shooters head straight for the action shooting disciplines. Second, most of the shooters who DO pursue precision shooting go into NRA Bullseye...and the rules and hardware are totally different. The skill sets are partly transferable...but the equipment is very decidedly not.

So the US pistol shooters are very much behind the 8-ball. There aren't that many shooters willing to try it...and fewer still willing to pursue it to the top levels.

[Steve Swartz]

This issue ("What's Wrong With The US International Pistol System?") has been kicked about regularly over the last three years or so. We never seem to be able to come to any *viable* ideas on how to address the issues short of getting >national level< (CMP-USAS-NRA etc.) collaboration and support.

And that ain't hardly likely.

The issues perhaps (to my limited recollection), in addition to the great points already made, seem to be:

- Small Base
- Lack of Development System
- Lack of Athlete Incentive/Reward
- Fragmented Disciplines/Tracks
- Social Stigma

- And . . . ?

Now, how can we attack these shortcomings/flaws? Is the only way to attack these flaws directly (ala Chinese Government Style intervention) or are there things we can do indirectly to help?

Steve Swartz

[Tycho]

Even having all of those doesn't guarantee anything - look at Switzerland -

- Large base
- Fully institutionalized development system
- Small competition from other shooting disciplines
- Far less social problems than mostwhere else

and they don't win much, do they? Why? POLITICS- anyone who doesn't suit the guardians of the system gets thrown out or is not let in at all. Not my problem, I'm not affected, but a lot of people are grumbling about the national shooting federation and their handling of top level sports shooting. So a system per se doesn't win anything.

[rrpc]

The issues perhaps (to my limited recollection), in addition to the great points already made, seem to be:

- Small Base
- Lack of Development System
- Lack of Athlete Incentive/Reward
- Fragmented Disciplines/Tracks
- Social Stigma

- And . . . ?
Steve Swartz

We face similar difficulties in Ireland, Steve. Especially since Pistols made a comeback with everyone going for 'black guns' and practical shooting or plinking.

One of the things I've noticed about USA shooting is the fragmentation and lack of resources for people who want to get into the sport. I know some people in the States who were very good prone rifle shooters here and in the UK and have given up due to the lack of ranges or clubs supporting their sport locally.

There seem to be a lot of (fairly) suitable ranges, but no people on the ground to actually push the ISSF disciplines there. I would think the first job that USA Shooting should do is to try and get a foothold in some of the clubs that have the facilities for the various disciplines, especially in areas that are badly served.

Sometimes, you find people that immediately take to the sport, find it exciting and demanding and really want to give it a go. Not everyone likes to jump around like action man shooting a pistol, but if it's the only game in town, they put up with it.

We've had some success with this approach in Ireland. Don't try and take them over, just be there and fly the flag. It only requires a couple of enthusiastic individuals to keep a club in the loop and to encourage others.

[Alex_c]

don't know when you were on the team but the way it is now, only resident athletes get funding for nationals. since we don't have any resident athletes for pistol no one gets funding. and funding for the other matches is not guaranteed. and maybe we don't have as many young pistol shooters because it's not as "PC" as rifle or shotgun?? and we do have some excellent pistol shooters in the US.

OK lots of quoting to do here so you're first Guest...

I think I was mixed up; I was indeed a Resident when I was getting funding to Nationals. Before that, Nationals was very close to my residence so it was no proble - in fact I was lucky to be in an area where there was a lot of pistol activity and lots of talent. By the time I was doing OK at local matches I was at an OK level natinally.

We have no Pistol residents right now? Is this a lack of funding or just that no one in Pistol chooses to be a Resident?

[Alex_c]

This issue ("What's Wrong With The US International Pistol System?") has been kicked about regularly over the last three years or so. We never seem to be able to come to any *viable* ideas on how to address the issues short of getting >national level< (CMP-USAS-NRA etc.) collaboration and support.

And that ain't hardly likely.

The issues perhaps (to my limited recollection), in addition to the great points already made, seem to be:

- Small Base
- Lack of Development System
- Lack of Athlete Incentive/Reward
- Fragmented Disciplines/Tracks
- Social Stigma

- And . . . ?

Now, how can we attack these shortcomings/flaws? Is the only way to attack these flaws directly (ala Chinese Government Style intervention) or are there things we can do indirectly to help?

Steve Swartz

I think it's been kicked around longer than the last 3 years, I think our last medal was Ruby Fox's in 1984.

[Alex_c]

Even having all of those doesn't guarantee anything - look at Switzerland -

- Large base
- Fully institutionalized development system
- Small competition from other shooting disciplines
- Far less social problems than mostwhere else

and they don't win much, do they? Why? POLITICS- anyone who doesn't suit the guardians of the system gets thrown out or is not let in at all. Not my problem, I'm not affected, but a lot of people are grumbling about the national shooting federation and their handling of top level sports shooting. So a system per se doesn't win anything.

There was a farmer had a dog and bingo was his name, oh, BINGO!

[Guest]

1988 silver medal mens air pistol Eric Buljung

[Alex_c]

There seem to be a lot of (fairly) suitable ranges, but no people on the ground to actually push the ISSF disciplines there. I would think the first job that USA Shooting should do is to try and get a foothold in some of the clubs that have the facilities for the various disciplines, especially in areas that are badly served.

There are tons of indoor as well as outdoor ranges for pistol in the US. 10-meters is easy to set up in the average house or with care, backyard or garage. It's easy to set up at the local pistol range. It's cheap, doesn't take a fancy shooting jacket etc., and heck it's air pistols! The .22 pistol disciplines are still much cheaper than .22 rifle, because the pistols are much more "omnivorous" as far as ammo goes, and it's really easy to get a pistol/ammo combination that will shoot much better than you can, leaving the rest up to you. You don't need a special set of clothing to compete, in fact I always shot in the same shoes I wore all day, just regular old runners.

I know IPSC and all that are action-packed and high-adrenaline and all that, but there have to be just as many people whose tastes, interests, and neurology place them over at the other end, towards concentration and trying for perfection. That's a lot of people left out by the action-pistol sports that would love International air, free, and sport that don't even know they're out there. International's more about quietude and concentration, which would throw a real loop to those who think pistol sports are about aggression and flying (sometimes literally) around the course fast. You could call International pistol the flyfishing of the pistol world, and because of this, a good ambassador for pistol ownership.

Man, I've really been out of the loop ...... I hope I'm not seeing international pistol in the US dying on the vine.....

[Mike M.]

The pistols may be reasonably priced, but the fast-turn targets aren't. RF bays, in particular, are scarcer than hen's teeth. I don't think there are more than a dozen in the country thhat are in working order.