TargetTalk

Has anyone put their TOZ in a Ransom Rest? Did you have to make the inserts for the Ransom Rest? I have 3 TOZ. the 1st one I bought new from Pikington. The other 2 are quite old. One needed a new part. These older ones are rnow ready to go and function fine but I want to verify their accuracy.

Thanks!

Susan

Yes, you can test your Toz in a RR. You'll have to buy the blank RR insert and cut it out to fit the small about of frame that's under the grips. Also, you'll need to cut out the area that the loading lever swings through.

Remove the grips and lay the pistol on the blank. Trace around it with a pencil. It you don't have access to a drill press, cut carefully with a sharp blade, fitting it frequently as you go. Be careful to not remove too much material.

I think that, if I was doing it all from scratch now, I would have gone a different way. I would have inletted the blank to fit the barrel right in front of the forearm wood. I think that might work just as well.

Stan

P.S. Remove only enough material that the Toz will fit in with a nice, tight squeeze fit. No slop allowed.

If you buy the RR blanks, have a "V" groove cut on the horizontal plane. Maybe 7/16th. This can be clamped around the barrel with the foreend removed. I made a spacer for the fore end screw out if rubber tubing which when in place will allow the trigger group to be in the propper position for firing. I got 15mm groups at 50 meters with tenex out of mine.

Guest,

Thanks for the info about clamping on the barrel.

Now that I've moved on to the Morini FP, do you suppose the same method (barrel clamping) will work for testing it? It seems like the only option for the Morini.

Stan

Yes same process, I use the same blank .

Just a quick addition here... I've had very repeatable results with the CM84E by clamping its barrel in the blank Ransom Rest insert with no grooves cut in the insert. It doesn't take much pressure to be able to hold the free pistol under recoil. With this method I've regularly reproduced sub-20mm group sizes so I have to think it's a reasonably functional way to do things without incurring much cost or frustration.

I find it hard to believe that anyone was able to satisfactorily clamp the meager "frame" (and I use this term loosely), of a TOZ, in the soft rubber compound of the Ransom Rest inserts. The "frame" is not only quite assymmetrical, but extremely weak and flexible, and prone to bending. I've made to date, two pairs of adapter panels for the TOZ, both of them out of 7/16" thick paper Micarta, which required very careful measuring, and milling out on a Bridgeport. These adapters, which are rectangular in shape, were then screwed to the "frame" using the existing grip screw holes, with metric filister head screws, which also had to be cut to length, based upon which part of the "frame" they were entering. I then machined out a recess in a pair of Ransom grip inserts for them. When measuring and cutting the panels, if I remember, it was not only necessary to allow clearance for the cocking lever, but one or two other moving action parts, which ones escapes me now.

As to clamping the barrel for testing, in my opinion, this is not satisfactory, since the clamping will dampen barrel vibrations, and produce false results. If anyone would like, I'll photograph the adapters, and post them.
Paul

Let me clarify my original request.

I have 3 TOZ one of which I know is good. The other 2 are old - SN beginas with AN and AAN. I want to make sure that these pistols are OK. If they are OK I may sell my original one. If I decide to sell one of the older ones I want to let the prospective buyer know what they are getting. I am just trying to verify that these guns are OK. I am not concerned about the minute differences in ammo just that it groups in an acceptable manner.

Susan

Susan - I'll be brief as time is short, so please don't interpret it as my being rude...

1) for the testing you want to do, clamping the barrel in blank inserts is going to be just fine

2) if you can't find a blank insert, then use the insert for another pistol and turn it upside down so you have the unused portion of the rubber up where you need it to clamp the FP barrel

3) be careful... New TOZ's aren't necessarily better than old ones. I haven't shot a "new" one, but have owned a few of the old ones, including AN and AAN serial numbers (my current one is an AN). The test targets supplied with the newer TOZ's that I've seen haven't been as good as the test targets with the older ones I've owned, or even as good as the test targets I made by clamping the barrel of an older TOZ in the Ransom Rest. You might find out from group testing that you want to keep your older guns and sell the new one! (no, I'm really not kidding about this!)

I wish you good luck in getting the end result you desire.

pgfaini wrote:I find it hard to believe that anyone was able to satisfactorily clamp the meager "frame" (and I use this term loosely), of a TOZ, in the soft rubber compound of the Ransom Rest inserts. Paul

Paul,

You may find it hard to believe, but it worked fine. With that set-up, that Toz shot 10-shot groups at 50 meters with a particular batch of R-50 that you could completely cover with a dime. Even "bad" groups were smaller than a quarter.

Regarding clamping the barrel, I've seem top Euro shooters testing groups with nothing clamped but the barrel. Seems to work for them.

Stan

Stan,
I won't argue, this may be what they're doing, but did they do any tests comparing groups fired with the barrel clamped and then the frame?
I'm sure clamping the barrel has to affect the barrel vibrations, which in turn affects the group size(and POI). It had been my experience, when experimenting with dampers to improve accuray, that damping will shrink the group size to a greater or lesser amount, from one batch of ammunition to another. Although this testing was with a BSA 12/15 target rifle, and I used a sliding weight, I see no reason a pistol barrel shouldn't respond the same way.

The reason C'Arco's Ransom Rests quickly garnered the machine rest market from such old timers as Phelps, Potter and Broadway, is because it simulates normal firing, by not affecting the barrel vibrations, and through a friction brake, allows the normal rise in recoil as would be if the pistol were fired from the hand. The latter, isn't as critical in .22RF, as it would be with a center fire handgun.

Paul