Attn:Nicole Hamilton

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:27 pm

Nicole, how about an update on the Pardini free pistol that you bought.I'am still miffed why you don't see any of the Pardinis on the Olympic or World Cup circuit. They can't be that far off the Toz and the Morini. By the way! That was a first class write up and picture review you did a few months ago.

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:42 pm

Okay, a quick follow-up, then I'll give it some more thought to see what I might add.

I've been shooting the Pardini K22 for about a year now, at least once/week in an informal Monday night FP match (so informal, that you score your own targets, but only if you want to) and then about once/month in a more formal match. I'd guess I've probably run about 5000 rounds through it so far. My scores typically run between 480 and 500, so obviously, we're talking about a gun that's way better than I am. :)

I'm still in love with the gun. I still love the balance and the fact that it doesn't feel so muzzle-heavy to me as the Morini. And I I still love the trigger: What can you say? It's a Pardini! :) Free pistol is becoming quite possibly my favorite event and this gun probably has more than a little to do with that.

The only thing I decided could be improved was the grip, which I upgraded to a Rink about 6 months ago. That was a big improvement for me given that I have a rather wide hand for a woman but it's nowhere near as "meaty" as you guys have. The standard Pardini didn't have enough adjustment to fit as well as I'd have liked, especially across the back of my hand. The Rink, otoh, has many more adjustment possibilities and gave me a much better fit. An unexpected benefit of the Rink grip is that it can also be removed the gun without first removing the shelf to get at the screw holding it onto the frame. That makes cleaning the gun a lot easier. (In the pictures I posted last year, I showed pushing a cleaning rod through a hole in the grip, then through the bore, but it's a lot less messy to take the grip off first.)

Speaking of cleaning, I did discover that you do need to disassemble the bolt to clean the firing pin. I found that out after 7 or 8 months when, one night, I started getting endless light strikes, too light to fire the cartridges. There's a little pin in the rear of the bolt that pushes out quite easily allowing the whole thing to be taken apart and cleaned. Now I do that every time I clean the gun. The experience has also shamed me into cleaning my guns a little more often! :)

Also on the subject of cleaning, I've also discovered that JB Bore Paste works wonders. I'd first used tried it in my match AR-15 after I noticed that Frank White at Compass Lake, the fellow who'd built my gun, had started recommending it. It had seemed like my group on that gun has grown over the years and I'd actually started worrying about the possiblity I might already be coming to end-of-life on the barrel. Nope, just hard fouling, apparently. JB shrunk the group back to what it was when the gun was new.

So I decided to try it on the K22 and while I can't offer a scientific comparison, my subjective impression was that the group from that gun got smaller, too. So these days, about every 300 rounds or so, I'll clean the bore with CLP and dry patches, wet it with more CLP, then run a patch with some JB worked into it through the bore maybe 3 or 4 times. After that, more CLP and dry patches, then Gun Scrub to degrease and rinse away any remaining grit, then a tiny bit of CLP and more dry patches. JB is a lapping compound, meaning that you need to use some common sense or you'll wear away away the steel in your barrel, but in moderation, it seems to work great.

Also, I learned a trick for dry-firing that, in retrospect, I suppose should have been obvious, but wasn't. First, you cock by lifting the bolt lever all the way, the close the bolt partway. Set the trigger, then press very gently on the bolt lever while you pull the trigger. If you don't apply that light pressure, it won't reliably go into dry fire mode. But if you do apply pressure while pulling the trigger, it always works perfectly.

Bottom line is that I'm still quite delighted with this gun and recommend it without hesitation. I'm still glad I chose this one over the others (Toz and Morini) I considered.

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:12 pm

Thanks for the fast reply. I'am close to ordering a new free pistol and was wanting to hear your comments. I have owned the Toz, Morini, and a Hammerli. As others have found. I shot the Toz the best. I have the new gun disease and the Pardini is the last one I haven't tried. I do like the way it comes apart for cleaning and it's simplicity. Per your comments I will order a Rink grip along with the pistol. With the Euro killing the dollar, I won't be able to get most of my money out of the Pardini like I did the other free pistols. So I will be holding on to this one it would seem. A good friend of mine has got the free pistol bug and we both enjoy shooting that disapline more then any other.

CraigE · Post by **CraigE** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:30 pm

Lane,

In the fwiw dept. I also have a K22 (which I was swayed to get based on the excellent information from Nicole). I bought the gun used from Pilkington and was sufficiently fortunate to have a Rink med RH included with the pistol. The original seller was Nygord. The balance/trigger of this pistol are spectacular. I had very limited (read: borrowed) experience with a TOZ which I liked, but when it came to parting with money, I felt the K22 to be more to my liking. A good shooting friend of mine also shoots the K22 (and sold his TOZ). We may not be world class....yet....but it won't be the pistol that holds us back. I have found the Rink grip to be excellent for me. The pardini trigger is exquisite. The balance makes the pistol seem to be part of anatomy instead of something comfortable to hold. YMMV.

Kuli · Post by **Kuli** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:53 pm

Do not use J B in your FP.

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:57 pm

Kuli wrote:Do not use J B in your FP.

Do you care to elaborate (besides the obvious, that it is a lapping compound)?

kuli · Post by **kuli** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:04 pm

J B is an abrasive polisher. A Pardini is not expected to have its barrel replaced every 1500 rounds like an AR. Patches and CLP will do it.

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:18 pm

I have a LOT more than 1500 rounds through my AR's Kreiger SS barrel. It's at least twice that so far. And thanks to the JB, it once again has the same sub-1/2 MOA group it started with.

Re: the FP, I appreciate the point that it's not quite the same situation, so I suppose it's possible you could be right and I may be doing something foolish and just can't tell. It is, as I said, a lapping compound, so it is clearly capable of wearing away steel. All I can say is that, if used sparingly, it has seemed to improve the gun's group. It seems better than a brass brush.

But again, I appreciate your comment.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:31 pm

I also bought a K22 as a result of Nicole's great writeup and have been very happy with it. However, unlike Nicole and Craig, I still found it to be a bit muzzle heavy, though nothing like the Toz. So, I bought a Morini compensator and sent it and the K22 off to Dave Sams. He removed about 3" of barrel, reducing the weight about 50gm but with no change in sight radius. The gun now weighs about 1015gm and feels and balances like my AP. In addition, there was no effect on accuracy - the gun still shoots 1/2" ten shot groups at 50 yd from a ransom rest.
I've attached a picture

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:50 pm

Fred, I notice you have the Rink grip also. It's a great grip, isn't it?

For those not familiar with it, notice the three screws in the shelf. They let you adjust that piece that comes over the back of your hand in or out and to rotate it in each of those directions to exactly fit both the thickness and the shape of your hand.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:55 pm

Yes, it is. I also have a Rink grip on my P44 and have ordered one for my IZH35.

PaulT · Post by **PaulT** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:09 am

If you purchase Rink, I would recommend the laminated ones. They are a few more dollars but they are inherently far stronger and offer the possibility of easy modification (please remember safety goggles, it is laminated and the glue!!). I have seen a few free pistol Rink grips and they are very nice. Not sure re their right hand/left eye as offset is not re-orientation, but for normal right hand/right eye, absolutely superb.

I did a few Pardini simple repairs/tests as the “gun smith” was to say the least, unfamiliar with cartridge target pistols and would not have a clue re what constituted a good trigger set-up! Pardini are a dream to set-up and swap out just about any component as needed in a few moments.

Breakfree bore solvent is excellent. Push a few felt tampons through with this on, wait a few minutes, the phosphor bronze brush with same solvent and follow with clean tampons until they come out clean.

With ammo testing, you should reduce the group size shot down from 1/2” but we found any S&L or Lapua brand / batch did 1/2”.

With exchange rate, this must be grating for Euro pistols. Still, on the positive, I am saving up and hope to see the next shuttle launch and visit the NASA visitor centre :-)

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:31 am

Well it looks like nicole has sold another one. Larry Carter and Rink grip ought to give you a finders fee. I'am in the process of selling off my center fire guns and reloading supplis to a good friend and will use that money to get the Free pistol and then will wait to see what happens with the long awaited steyr electric air pistol. We can hope! I'am converting to all air and 22's. Thanks to all of you who have replyed and sent pictures. It really helps to make an informed decission when buying these specialized target guns. It used to be that you could afford to buy and try. If it didn't work out you would loose a few dollars and then try something else. Now! The resale is not the best and you take a good hit.

I will report back my impressions in a couple of months.

Lane · Post by **Lane** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:53 am

Just a side note! Wish Pilkguns was the importer and could sell the Pardini's and Rink grips. We all know and trust Scott to give the best advice and service and stock parts of all of the importers of international equipment. I haven't delt with Larry's guns other then to buy Ultra dots and Rink grips for my model#41.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:16 am

Lane,
Once you get used to that excellent Pardini trigger, you will sell the M41 and buy a Pardini SP for your small bore shooting :-). I shot a M41 and a Pardini SPE for years and could never do as well with the M41 as I could with the SPE.

Enjoy your new gun.

Fred

Nicole Hamilton · Post by **Nicole Hamilton** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:45 am

PaulT wrote:If you purchase Rink, I would recommend the laminated ones. They are a few more dollars but they are inherently far stronger ...

I went with the standard walnut myself. It's possible the laminated grips are stronger, but my goodness, how strong do they have to be for a free pistol? :) I don't think solid walnut is going to fall apart under all that stress! But the reason I went with the walnut was cosmetic: While I like the look of some laminated furniture, I was turned off by the garish blue/orange combination Rink uses. By contrast, the walnut is very nice looking.

Yes, yes, I know what top shooters say: looks don't matter, so long as you get 10s, which is why their grips always look like a POS, hacked away here and puttied there. But personally, I have a different attitude: If you're not really any good, at least have a pretty gun. :)

scerir · Post by **scerir** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:25 pm

Lane wrote: I'am still miffed why you don't see any of the Pardinis on the Olympic or World Cup circuit. They can't be that far off the Toz and the Morini.

You cannot see very often the K22 even in the Italian circuit. The reason is not well known to me (and to many others). I've heard people saying their score was higher with Toz or with Morini. My supposition is that free pistols having the firing chamber not so close to the grip (and this is the case of the K22, or the Steyer FP) may be nervous indeed, when the shot is not perfect, due to the torque and the longer lever arm (from the firing chamber to the hand). But this is just a personal supposition.

Mike M. · Post by **Mike M.** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:51 pm

Scerir, I might agree, except that the Steyr FP put the barrel in line with the forearm. There should have been no torque effects at all when firing.

I've heard that the Germans looked at all the free pistols, and concluded that the biggest advantage the Toz-35 has is lock speed....the Toz is very quick.

scerir · Post by **scerir** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:20 pm

Mike M. wrote: I might agree, except that the Steyr FP put the barrel in line with the forearm. There should have been no torque effects at all when firing.

Yes, and no. It seems to me that the Steyr FP (it has a very low barrel and it is perfectly balanced, in the sense that it has the same mass above and below the barrel axis) has a different problem. The torque might be small, in value, but its direction might be variable, shot after shot. That is because the direction of the (limited) movement of the barrel during each shot (and perhaps also the impact of the pellet on the target) becomes strongly dependent on the way you grip the pistol (it changes a bit, shot after shot). It is possible to see the barrel of a Steyr FP pointing down,
during a shot, and pointing up, during the next shot.

JulianY · Post by **JulianY** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:29 am

Nicole Hamilton wrote: Yes, yes, I know what top shooters say: looks don't matter, so long as you get 10s, which is why their grips always look like a POS, hacked away here and puttied there. But personally, I have a different attitude: If you're not really any good, at least have a pretty gun. :)

I have to side with you on this one, I hat the look of the multi colored laminated grips, especial the bright ones. even two colors of brown would be better.

PaulT will know more about this that me, but in my limited experience most really top European shooters have no putty! the reason being they have been to rink / nill/ rogers / whoever and have had a "cast" made and a grip made from that. I am told that there are a couple of reason for this being desirable. First off the feel of wood and putty are different. secondly putty tends to be a bit too smooth and is less porous if at all. so any sweat just sits on the surface. I have been doing some investigation on this and the prices are not a wild as i expected, it cost about 30% more that a standard factory one.

JY

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