TargetTalk

Hi all

Has any one had experience shooting the Hammerli AR50 air rifle?
If so, could you let me know what you thought of it and how it performed.

It seems to be the 'underdog' yet looks to be superbly made with Swiss prescision and not quite as expensive as the brand leaders.

Peepsight

We use the wood stock Hammerli AR50, fitted with the Swarkovski sight, for blind shooting. It's neatly designed, ambidextrous and, after 2 years of quite intensive use, ours appear reliable. The action doesn't have the more solid appearance of the Anschutz or Steyr, maybe it owes more to the Swiss watchmaker than the gunsmith, but as I say functions well.

Overall how would I assess it? A very good buy for the club shooter (competitive price) but I somehow feel that if your aim is the British Championship you might want something else.

Rutty

Hi Rutty

Thanks for that, i forget to say it was the AR50 Pro line with alu stock that i was interested in.

Peepsight

I and a few of the older club members owned the AR50 Pro Alu rifles and overall the rifle works fairly well. The one weak spot on the rifle is the O ring used on the nipple where the cylinder is screwed on and if use rifle on a heavy basis the filling adapter. The filling adaptor threads are so fine that they need to be cleaned and lubricated quite regularly. If you don't the threads on the adapter or nipple will gall and the cylinder won't unscrew. The only other problem I had with the rifle is a part was missing off the rifle and it wouldn't fire properly, but Larry's Guns in Maine fixed the problem.

We had four or five of the rifles at the Junior Olympics fail last month because the users didn't now that the cylinder has to be uncrewed or screwed all the way off or on in the same direction. If you attempt to only go part way and reverse directions the o-ring can get cut and the rifle won't fire until the o-ring is replaced.

I have sent Hammerli information about these problems, but I guess they don't see it as an issue.

As long as you follow these precautions the rifle should be reliable. However, all my other club members are now using FWB or Anschutz rifles now. There are just more parts and accessories for these rifles.

I have a Hammerli AR50 Pro, as for the O-ring issue. Mine came with a big pink flyer that explained the importance of lubricating the o-ring and not changing directions while screwing on and off the tank. But, I am sure most juniors quickly discarded that page, along with the rest of the owners manual that anybody rarely reads until they have a problem. Aside from which I am not entirely sure what the need to be constantly filling the tank is as mine easily lasts well over 400 shots from 200 bar...

PROS:
Loading is super easy just drop the pellet in the tray and push the loader home.
the stock is solid as a rock, and it comes with a MEC 3-position buttplate which i like way better than the Anschutz version.
Short barrel with bloop tube makes a great sight radius with the error cutting benifits of a short barrel.
Comes with a nice set of sights, after you replace the rear apperature.
The cheek piece is nice and big, with a comfortable smooth finish.
Very low vibration.

CONS:
Plastic parts on the rifle seem a bit on the chinsy side.
The "dry-fire" function only works with the tank un-screwed
Lack of weights with rifle, I wish there was a way to add a bit more barrel weight.
Too many different wrenches/tool required for adjustments in position.
Lack of a trigger guard once you take the palm rest off.


And despite what everyone has ever said about Hammerli and Walther service and parts availability in the US. I have both a Walther smallbore rifle and a Hammerli air rifle, the few problems i have had (which for the most part are the result of my own stupidity) A quick email resolved any question of parts source.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that the action looks delicate compaired to an Anschutz as the Anschutz has a large loading arm that to me looks like it would break off or bend if the rifle is knocked over, but what something looks like is all a matter of opinion anyway right?

Hi Randy

Thanks for that info. it confirms some of my doubts about the rifle, especially the adaptor threads.

I too have contacted Hammerli on several occasions but they don't reply.
Not very good business practice!
Umerex are now the new owners of Hammerli and they are now seen on the Walther web site. In fact the new Hammerli AR30 is now marketed under the Walther label.

I tried suggesting to Walther and Hammerli that the AR50 Alu would be a great gun if they were to improve the adaptor thread problem, make the dry fire system simple like its competitors and re launch the model.

Stony silence.

I have lost faith in Walther and Hammerli as its like trying to get blood out of a stone when you contact them.
There loss not mine.

Peepsight

Hammerli is not the only rifle with thread galling problems. I had it with my anschutz 2002 and have known others with the same problem. I thought i would share something I came upon. When I had the problem with mine I spent a lot of time cleaning out the threads, rechasing them, etc. I tried various lubes. Nothing helped much until I tried wax on the threads. It was like magic. I tried various waxes looking for something soft. What I finally settled on is the wax from a toilet bowl seal ring. I don't know if you folks in England seal your toilets to the floor the same way we do in US, maybe that source won't apply to you. A few dollars gets a lifetime supply and it really works miracles on the alu/alu threads of an airgun cylinder. I use it on my FWB's too.

Thanks guys

All this info is good as i am now building up a picture from the various experiences of Hammerli shooters.

I know the wax you are talkning about so i will look into that shortly.

My last question is accuracy, Will the Hammerli shoot a tight one hole group from a bench rest and does it favour any particular brand of pellet and pellet size?
Also how effective is the recoil absorber as compared to other rifles?

Peepsight

Yes the rifle is capable of shooting one whole groups as it comes with the same test target that comes with Walther, FWBs, and Anschutz. I can testify the one rifle I owned liked RWS R10 pellets.

The one lubricant we use is TW-25B by Mil-Comm (http://www.mil-comm.com/weapons_lubricants.html). The military uses it on their machine guns, gatling guns, and other weapons as it functions in all sorts of temperature extremes and it is a synthetic, which can be used in air rifles. It is expensive, but you only need a little and it goes a long way. I got a small sample packet around six years ago at the Shot Show that I used on the AR50 and FWB and I just finished the sample pack last month. I found that also that seems to last longer then any other lubricant.

Maybe it is nothing, but I would be worried about using a wax. If you get the wax buildup it may plug up the regulator. You can pay for alot of TW25B to fix a regulator.

the wax from a toilet bowl seal ring

Yes, that's the stuff, Plumber's Silicone Grease! Same stuff I use on the sliding door of the shower.

I am interested in the cross-threading problem as I have never experience it with either the club Hammerlis or my own Anschutz 2002. I always partially unscrew the cylinder before storage so that no gas can be accidentally discharged. To me it just seems good practice. I have never experienced any cross-threading. Admittedly I do endeavour to keep the attachment thread as clean as possible.

Rutty

In my situation I had a bonafied galling problem that was on the verge of locking the treads up. On this I tried various wizz bag lubes including one silicone grease from Steve Moore (ans warrantee guy) that was supposedly developed by the military for machine guns. It still galled. Wax fixed it. The wax does not go on the inside but stays on the outside. Been using it for about 4 years now on my anschutz and three P70s that i and my daughters shoot no problems.

Thanks guys

It makes you wonder why Hammerli have not improved this area of the rifle and also made the dry fire system simple like all the other makes.

I was concerned about my Steyr cylinder threads so i asked steyr and they said, don't worry, no maintenance is required.

I think the AR50 Alu could be a great rifle if only they would address these weak points and at least then make it as good as the competition.

Trouble is they won't answer e mails. Hammerli are now part of the Walther group and they don't answer e mails either.

If it was Anschutz i was asking for help, you get a great back up within a day.

Peepsight

I bought an AR50 alu several years ago, and on balance am very pleased with it.

It simply fits me. Period.

I've tried several alternatives back then and also more recently, and have not been tempted to change to an alternative. I did encouter two problems (which is not unique for Haemmerli - before the AR50 I had a FWB601 with a history of its own...)

- I found out the hard way that the composite tube is a bit weak. Mounted on the barrel with just one tiny screw, there is too much flexibility there. I had it replaced by a tailor-made alu version, also adding a bit of extra weight and extending the sight radius a bit). With the current AR50 ALu Pro, the alu tube is already there when you buy it.

- Right now, there is some valve problem being solved. With a full cylinder, the V0 was low (yes, low!), with lousy grouping. With <120 bar, the V0 was normal, and grouping acceptable (but not great). With a loaner system mounted on my AR50, I had no problems finding exellent (RWS R10) pellets. Ten through 1 hole, and nr 11 won't fall through. That's good enough for me.

- Servicability is an issue. I've been waiting for the repair for months. No problem since I have this exellent loaner system mounted no my own rifle, but still...

Hope this helps.
Regards - Jeroen

Hi Jeroen

Thanks for that info. I think the AR50 latest version is a great rifle but i still think it has some weak points, such as the dry fire system and the high risk of cylinder 'O' ring seal damage if you do not do as they say in the owners hand book.

Now that Hammerli are under Walther, things might improve and i suspecct that the AR50 Pro is long overdue for a Mk 2 version upgrade.

Trouble is will Walther do this, as they will obviuosly have a bigger vested interest in their own brand.

Regards

Peepsight

JeroenH wrote:- Servicability is an issue. I've been waiting for the repair for months. No problem since I have this exellent loaner system mounted no my own rifle, but still...

I just found out that I need to correct myself on that one. I got news from the shop that the repaired system is already back from the repair at Hammerli/Walther, for several months waiting to be picked up actually. They (the shop) forgot to let me know. So Hammerli/Walther was a lot quicker than I thought.

I agree on the dry fire system being a weak point. The manual says it's there, but I consider it to be absent.
I don't have a problem with the O-ring issue.

Hammerli rifles are as accurate as the shooter. I know it sounds cliche but it's the truth of the matter. I shot my Hammerli in matches for two years before I quit due to coaching issues and during that time it never missed what I was aiming it at. The gun never jammmed and required little if not none maintenance. The action is great because it requires no work besides the push of a little switch next to the loading port. Overall it's a great gun, the fact that it is ambidextrious and has spots under the tank to insert extra weights is also great.