TargetTalk

hi, everyone. i am an amteur in shooting. Only started shooting 10m air pistol last May. currently using lp2.

My match scores have been stagnant for more than 4 months, despite improvement in my training score. here are my scores as follows:

November: 537
December: 542
January: 537
February: 543
March: 542

somehow i always can't hit my potential 550s which i often achieved in my training sessions. Any tips to break this stagnation? i have tried psy-ing myself to hit 10s/ 9s. but somehow always after a streak of 9s n 10s, 8s will start to break out in my series. it is really annoying.

and recently, i started having a fetish for barrel weights. always yearning to add more of them. currently i have 3 25g barrel weights attached onto my lp2. is this normal?

Ebs and Flow are normal , sounds like you are doing pretty well . Training usually happens in an area where your comfort level is high eg; home or at the club . Matches are more stressfull , dropping a few points is not uncommon . Remember that the slope gets steeper as the score gets better .Playing around with equipment is fun , fits in with human nature - the desire to get something for nothing , and can invoke temporary improvements ( Hawthorn effect ). You are probably better off working on fundemental skills . Dont get me wrong , I like to tinker as much as the next fella , but it my not be the best use of your time .

Most importantly , dont let all this errode your enjoyment of the sport .

Chris

For the amateur shooter your score is respectfully good enough 
If you looking to progress in score performance you have to change attitude to yourself and accordingly reset your goal. After that you will see more perspective in ISSF shooting.
Good luck!

ANY advice & tips....?!? :) :(
Would you like to take advice or tips from the amateur shooter who can’t score 520?
Would you like to take the advice from the “amateur adviser” who just believes in some ideas?
How to recognize one good advice from the other one, which can be the bad one :(
Can you handle side effects from such tips? :)

Blind shooter wrote:ANY advice & tips....?!? :) :(
Would you like to take advice or tips from the amateur shooter who can’t score 520?
Would you like to take the advice from the “amateur adviser” who just believes in some ideas?
How to recognize one good advice from the other one, which can be the bad one :(
Can you handle side effects from such tips? :)

So your advice is - don't ask for/accept any advice & tips?

Fred Mannis wrote:

Blind shooter wrote:ANY advice & tips....?!? :) :(
Would you like to take advice or tips from the amateur shooter who can’t score 520?
Would you like to take the advice from the “amateur adviser” who just believes in some ideas?
How to recognize one good advice from the other one, which can be the bad one :(
Can you handle side effects from such tips? :)

So your advice is - don't ask for/accept any advice & tips?

i agree with Rhodes. i am currently shooting an average of 540. To reach 540, theoretically, all shots must land within the 9 ring. 10s must be hit to break the 540 barrier.

but more oftenly, it is the 8s n 7s which prevents you from doing so, and also dragging you down along the way. According to my coach, who was once a province team coach in China, 8s and 7s are not to be tolerated if one wants to ever reach 550.

i have only shot for 10 months, but am now trying to tackle my 4 months of stagnation, where i can't seem to bring all my shots into the 9 ring.

perfect alignment/technique is most important, from my experience. only pull the trigger when you have achieved the perfect alignment. Make full use of the 1hr 45 mins. For me, i cut down on the number of sighting shots to 5, so as to save time, energy and potential 10s.

shoot before hand, to cut down warmup time during the competition itself. there is no point in hitting 10s on a sighter card which is not counted. Rather, spend the 105 mins staying focused, concentrating on attaining the perfect alignment and thus, hit 10s.

Lastly, i aim with both eyes. wear no shooting glasses and shooting shoes. and have no problem with my sights. I feel that pistol shooting is not so much of an arms race like rifle shooting, and it is not necessary to have all these equipments to shoot well. (though a good gun really helps)

Best, most effective way to overcome problems is listen to his coach!
He got over 540 during 10 month....is it not a good sign, yet?

Six Common Myths about what it takes to be Successful in Olympic Target Shooting
...or Some Useful Hints for Breaking through Performance Stagnation...

Myth #1: Ideal scores in practice is a direct path to equally high competitive performance.

Myth #2: Underestimating the importance of Tactics, Nutrition, and Strategy in preparation for high level of competitive performance.

Myth #3: Strong belief in being naturally predisposed to performing better because of innate family traditions (hunting heritage, target shooting tradition passed down through generations, recreational shooting) or tips received from other amateur shooters.

Myth #4: Believing that the certain top brands of, or the highest-priced equipment will bring the highest possible competitive result.

Myth #5: Self-directed hard work in practice is all I need until I get to the national level, because after that my coach will give me enough attention to fix my obstacles and bad habbits in practice and competition. Not realizing that competition only gets harder and stiffer at the national level among your teammates, and thereby not budgeting your physical and mental resources well enough to be ready to a higher commitment after elevating your performance to a new level. Failing to accept the reality that to sustain any new level of performance, one must have enough resources in reserves to use in the future.

Myth #6: Underestimating potential pitfalls in physical, psychological, and technical performance, and failing to anticipate possible equipment trouble by having too much faith in using the most expensive gear.


It can be more :)
Russ

Pretty good list Russ.

to blindshooter1, you sound a little bit cynical to me.

well, all the coach do was to demand me shooting within the 9 ring. nothing more. He focuses more on my high school p-rifle team.

All the other theories and strategy i have are all developed during my long training hours. E.g. 9-12 hrs training everyday during vacation.

So other than the expectations of shooting within the 9 ring, i was basically left to my own device, to figure out how to most efficiently fulfil that expectation. on my own.

and, a good gun does really matters. have you ever seen shooters using daisys or izzys at the olympics? no. there is a distinct difference in a LP1 and a LP10, which i think many will agree with.

It is up to one to push oneself on the route to improvement. (though some useful tips and advices from accomplished and experienced shooters may kinda speed up the process.)

Regarding which tips and advice to take it, it will depends on the individual. If one had tried the tips given before, and failed, one would not that the tip does not work est for him, and thus, not follow the tip.

Different shooters shoot with different techniques, believes and so on. i feel that one should always be on the lookout for advice so as to find a better technique, to faster reach your potential.

I am always ready for constructive advice if i feel that it will helps me.
and thanks to all those who contributed to this post. Your advice are very appreciated.

"and, a good gun does really matters. have you ever seen shooters using daisys or izzys at the olympics? no. there is a distinct difference in a LP1 and a LP10, which i think many will agree with." :)))

Today I took my IZH 46M ($270 investment) to AP Pistol scheduled turnament at Bay City Michgan: Bay City Michigan State Air Rifle & Air Pistol League & Duncan's AR Match (Duncan's)
here is my score:
48, 47, 49, 49, 49, 48, 46, 45, 47, 50, 49, 49 = 576
last month my score was 571 with AP Anschutz LP@ ($1,600.00 investment)
I do not try to say IZH is better than Anschutz, it is less fun to shot but....$1,300.00 difference make me more happy and use my money by investing in my son's violin private lessons ...:)
My Point is ....... ;) investment in what....????
Best wishes for you.... you done Great job for 10 month!
My respect!
Ruslan

Just to be the devil's advocate maybe if you shot the LP@ you would have shot a 580.

But you're right Russ look what the world record was shot on and it still holds today even with all the changes to air pistols. The new bread of pistols is just simply easier to shoot thus more fun to shoot. Given that people may train longer and acheive better scores, but in the end the tool it self is really no more accurate than the older ones.

My record is 585 with a Feinwerkbau 65. But would I trade my Hämmerli AP40 for a FWB65? Nope, 'cause the AP40 lets me keep my scores above 570 in 95% of the cases. Its just easier to shoot a new pistol than an old pistol. As simple as that.
Will I shoot above 585 with it? Well.. maybe. At least I shoot +580 more often than with the FWB.

this is what i did when i was in your shoes, first i shot everyday for 4 weeks, and after dinner dry fired down my hallway, at the range i would bet the clerk a buck or 2 on the score that i would shot ( some times before i left home i would bet my wife. no money). I also take a little longer to pull the trigger then most shooters( those are my best shots),But if the sight picture isnt right from the getgo then i will forgo that shot .( ill try to explain,) i raise my gun and i get a good shot picture almost at once, i will not take it (ever)usually it will come back and when it does i am usually better prepared for it . meaning ive checked and doubled checked over and over all my alinements and my trigger is just inching to go off, usually about the 3rd time my sight picture is great BANG 10 dead center, BUT there is always that time when u need to put down tour gun even if your sight picture does keep coming back,( and i am in great phyical shape that might help with a longer hold) the difference between my practice and my competition scores started to go away and both went way up. its hard for me too take advise from shooters that shot lower scores than me. but most of those shooters have shot a lot longer than me and most of the advise has been good. im always trying to get advice from other shooters that shot as good as i do ,our conversations usually start with what have u been doing and end with if it works for u do it. i hope this helps alittle, i just wanted too try and actually answer a question to a starter shooter without a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

Ded, I don't know if you left something out of your post but from your explanation it sounds like you are waiting for the sights to align and then pulling the trigger when you see them aligned, is this the case?

sure your scores can become stagnant but does it mean that your ability isnt improving? is your grouping in fact getting tighter? do you find it easier to shoot?

if you are in fact improving carry on doing what your coach tells you to. i have a feeling that you are losing points because you are unable to identify and abort the "bad" shots. i guess there is no short cut for this. the only way is to practice more.

Another thing you may want to try is taking a little vacation from shooting.

Coming back from a break, I find I can usually shoot a little better than normal (just concentrating on the process, instead of the mind being crammed full of useless shite).

Getting back to where this post started, I would not be surprised if you are experiencing a classic example of what I call grade-lock. I see it often with shooters who break into C grade with a 500 score. If psycologically they do not set themselves another target they can spend the next couple of years shooting scores week after week in ther 495-505 range.
If you are a 540 shooter (B grade), you know that to hit 540 you have to average a 9, so you tend to accept an 8 if you have just shot a 10. This leaves you locked into scores in the range 535-545. Never accepting an 8 under any circumstances is what lifts you to 550 and then 560 (A grade).
Psychologically, I tell myself that the only good shot is one that hits the X ring. (that's what we are trying to do remember!) An outer 10 is OK but strive for better. Once you can think that way, your 9s become poor shots and an 8 a disaster you can only repeat only once or twice a match. Get annoyed if you shoot a string of 9s - don't think, "Oh well, I am keeping up averages."
Think this way and you will become an A grade in no time.

ColinC wrote:Get annoyed if you shoot a string of 9s - don't think, "Oh well, I am keeping up averages."
Think this way and you will become an A grade in no time.

I'm afraid I don't agree. There is too much focus on the negatives and negative feedback. A nine can still be a technically good shot, a 10 is just better. Also do not decry the string of 9's or get annoyed. Recompose and carry on thinking of those technically good shots - i.e. forget the rest.

Remember the advice that the only shot that you can control is the one in the gun, nothing else. Give that one 100% concentration, the rest 0%. If you can do that and get each shot technically right a good score will be the outcome.

One other thing that doesn't help is to have score based goals. Sure we all want to shoot higher scores but having that as a goal effectively reduces the likelihood of it happening. If we focus on the good technical aspects then the good scores will follow naturally.

Rob.

Good point Ron. Of course I agree with you. I was trying to get across the point that some shooters seem to lock themselves into scores a few points above and below grade break.
The focus should never be on the negatives but a string of nines can be a pain, especially when you are potentially a 560 shooter and every time you pull the trigger you drop a point off that 600 point possible.
Having said that, I'd take the 560 even if it was made up of 20 bulls and 40 nines. Who wouldn't? I guess those blokes that keep racking up 570s and 580s.

it is frustrating when you are at a point that your training is going up, but not your comp results, happens to most at some time. no big deal

what you do about it is the key.

when you started all you did was think about how to shoot, then after some months this started to become more natural, and you fall into the trap that all other club shooters fall into, trying to shoot 10's.
thats why they are club shooters, they try to shoot 10's, or even worse, try not to shoot 9's etc. or as someone said, provintial champion?

top shooters don't try to shoot tens, yet that is the result.

why, because they shoot technically good shots, that will more often than not, be a ten. but not always, s#@t happens.

they train comps, not train to train.

anyone that thinks it is normal to shoot comps below their training, is more often a club shooter, and doesn't train properly.

that is they don't train to compete, rather than survive, as you currently are.
the greater the gap between your training and comp, the more damage you are doing to yourself.

survival is fighting with the little man/woman in the back of your head, trying to shoot a ten, while the little guy is not happy about it.
you can spend yrs learning to make your little guy happier.(self image) but you still will never shoot better than training until you start to go back to basics and shoot technically good shoots.
shot placement is purely an indicater of where it landed, if thats where you put it fine, if not why was it there? then fix it.
not 10.3, or 9.8.

forget about results, just score your ability to shoot a controlled shot most times.
it is about how many controlled shots you have, the rest will come.

probably over done it a bit, but some of the rubbish people write. rob was good!
shooting is simple and fun. don't complicate it.

work on the good shots, and the bad ones will magically go away, strange isn't it. don't fall into the trap of negative reinforcement.

there are several areas past controlled shot, one being getting in the right zone, but that is for another day.

hope that helps
post up how you go