TargetTalk

Anybody else out there have a hankering to run their trainer on a free operating system?

Larry

Not really, it runs fine on windows. I prefer to train with it as opposed to playing with the computer but hey whatever floats your boat.

funtoz wrote:Anybody else out there have a hankering to run their trainer on a free operating system?

Larry

Does it run on WINE?

Perhapses, but I personally feel that whilst the current version is functionally great the graphics and user interface is rather 70's

JY

Tried running it under wine?

JulianY wrote:

funtoz wrote:Anybody else out there have a hankering to run their trainer on a free operating system?

Larry

Does it run on WINE?

Perhapses, but I personally feel that whilst the current version is functionally great the graphics and user interface is rather 70's

JY

Running it under a different operating system won't change that. I don't know what computers you were using in the 70's but none of mine looked like that, it's more like early 90's (ie Windows 3.0 like).

Richard H wrote:
Running it under a different operating system won't change that. I don't know what computers you were using in the 70's but none of mine looked like that, it's more like early 90's (ie Windows 3.0 like).

Richard,

No I do appreciate that running it on a different os wont change the user inter face and yes 70's is a bit early but i think you get the point :)

J

Yes I get your point they really need to upgrade and not just the software, that's why I'm seriously considering getting a Scatt.

They really need to get away from the serial port requirement. It is almost impossible to get a PC/laptop with a serial port. We kept an old Pentium 1 to use exclusively with the RIKA.

The problem most don't seem to realize is that to use USB you need drivers for one and two it is very easy to get a serial to USB adapter but not so for a USB to serial adapter. So really you can use the current Rika on any laptop (if you only have USB you need an adapter for a few bucks). If you have the new Scatt (which I like very much) you really need a laptop with USB ports.

I asked because I thought I would write up a step by step procedure for those that aren't as comfortable with computers. It is really quite simple. Rika runs on the wine emulator and requires only a simple addition to a user's group list to make it all happen. It takes no more than a minute or two longer than an install on a windoz machine.

I agree that the software is seriously dated. Those married to their Microsoft boxes would call the GUI '90s vintage, but Commodor, Atari, and Apple had superior windowing systems available in the 80's. Since Rika makes their money from hardware rather than software, they don't seem to pressed to make a lot of improvements. Too bad they don't open their source so that those who still like to play with software might make some needed improvements and additions.

My first computer was home built in the mid 70's. After 30 years of hardware and software development, I don't need computer challenges any more.

LArry

shadow wrote:They really need to get away from the serial port requirement. It is almost impossible to get a PC/laptop with a serial port. We kept an old Pentium 1 to use exclusively with the RIKA.

Try the Dell Latitude series, most of them have serial ports. The Inspiron line don't.

shadow wrote:They really need to get away from the serial port requirement. It is almost impossible to get a PC/laptop with a serial port. We kept an old Pentium 1 to use exclusively with the RIKA.

As far as i know modern /good quality usb serial converters do work with a rika. There was an issue in this respect a couple of years ago but this seems to be over. I do know people who are ding this successfully

JY

JulianY wrote:

shadow wrote:They really need to get away from the serial port requirement. It is almost impossible to get a PC/laptop with a serial port. We kept an old Pentium 1 to use exclusively with the RIKA.

As far as i know modern /good quality usb serial converters do work with a rika. There was an issue in this respect a couple of years ago but this seems to be over. I do know people who are ding this successfully

JY

I've set up a few with usb to serial adapters without any problem. There were issues a while back and a ot of these issues were solved by downloading the latest drivers for the device.

Is it possible to build a cheaper alternative of the home trainer target system using opensource software and off the shelf electronics?

John

Certainly possible, given enough money and commitment.

Software is less of a problem than the hardware. There was a proposal to develop an enhanced electronic trigger, possibly with light weight single chip technology. Fun to contemplate. Anyone that's ever bought a mask set, even for 2-micron line widths would know that none of us have the coins for it. There was also some brainstorming for the creation of an affordable electronic target back when this was a text list. It generated quite a bit of traffic, but I don't think anyone actually heated up a soldering iron over it.

There is a serious need for a simple inexpensive electronic target, unfortunately there isn't a big enough market to commercially develop it. If shooters had the money to do the development, then they'd just go out and get one of the ones currently available.

There is a possibility that users could make a significant contribution to software for shooting use. The entry cost for programming is near zero. But we are shooters primarily and I doubt that much would really transpire, even if someone like Rika open sourced their program and machine interface. John over in the bullseye world produced a match operations sheet. There isn't anything like it available for the international side.

Larry

Larry, thanks for the tip. I search through the forum and found a few threads and some links to electronics targets. I've always wonder about how electronic targets worked. I guess they use either sound triangulation from pellet impacting a rubber roll or light curtains to determine the impact point.

Light curtain seems to the more expensive method, but the rubber roll is mechanically more complex. . . . Are there easier ways? . . . besides the old walk up to the paper target method.

It'll be great if an electronic target system can be built for a couple hundred dollars. It doesn't have to be elaborate, just a way to measure pellet impact points at home and serve as a base for the more adventurous souls to build on.

John

Anonymous wrote:It'll be great if an electronic target system can be built for a couple hundred dollars.

If you could find a way of doing that, and make it reasonably accurate, I am sure there would be many shooters willing to buy it from you.

Are you the same "Guest" who a few posts ago was talking about electronic trainers? Many people get electronic targets and electronic trainers mixed up. They are totally different beasts.

I guess I should register now. . . It wasn't me asking about the electronic trainers. . . . Electronic trainers are too expensive to buy and too complex for DIY. I think my trusty IZH-46 sets the threshold for my accessory purchases.

Ths may be mainly a message to Larry (funtoz), but I thought I'd resurrect it here in case it is helpful to anyone else. It will also seem more of a computer message than shooting, but it involves trying to get the Rika running on a Linux platform, so I'll risk being a little off topic.

I finally tried to move my Rika over to Linux using the wine prgram. Although the trainer.exe comes up relatively OK, it does not communicate with the comm port, therefore the controller. I'm not super new to Linux and can even program a little, including GTK, but haven't worked with any of the ports in anything since Win98 days.

The computer has separate drives for win98 and Linux. The win98 drive is powered down during Linux use, which has become more the primary use. I'm running an older version of Debian (Sarge) because of a lot of stuff I currently use, that I'm not ready to migrate to Etch. I did try to install a 2.6 kernel, but wasn't learned enough to get through all the errors. The Rika software runs fine under the win98 OS.

uname -a gives me:

Linux computername 2.4.27-2-386 #1 Wed Aug 17 09:33:35 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux

Also, a while ago, one of the apt-get update/upgrade sessions installed udev which won't run under a 2.4 kernel, so I lost the USB ports. I don't know if this might have affected the comm ports as well. I would have gone back to hotplug, but it threatened to delete too many packages and otherwise the system is working OK for now.

Now, finally, to the Rika part, almost...

I have wine and xwine running under Gnome and can invoke it from a terminal, although I found no menu entry for anything but the configurator and uninstaller. It also runs by choosing a windows program, so by running the trainer.exe, wine is invoked and the trainer comes up. I have done all the things I can think of and find suggested, from adding my user to different groups, to running as root and none seem to solve the trouble.

When I try to log on, I get the familiar, "No Rika Home Trainer could be found. Please check all cables, connections,... and retry." message. The Administration screen allows me to choose COM1 while it admonishes me for trying any of the other choices with, "The interface defined in the setup could not be initialized."

my wine config has:

[Version]
"Windows" = "win98"
"DOS" = "6.22"

[serialports]
"Com1" = "/dev/ttyS0"
"Com2" = "/dev/ttyS1"
"Com3" = "/dev/ttyS2"
"Com4" = "/dev/modem"

[ports]
;"read" = "0x779,0x379,0x280-0x2a0"
;"write" = "0x779,0x379,0x280-0x2a0"

Somewhere I read that I might need a win.ini file with ports referenced, but I couldn't find any details.

I realize the easiest might be to upgrade to Etch, but I have a lot of stuff currently installed and working under Sarge that I'm somewhat reluctant to rework under Etch. And, besides, I can bring up my win98 drive and run Rika without too much hassle. I'm just trying to slowly move further from the Windows realm...

If anyone would care to lend some thoughts privately instead of through this thread, please contact me initially through edwin_hall@airforceshooting.org

Take Care,
Ed Hall
US Air Force Shooting Teams
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

funtoz wrote: There is a serious need for a simple inexpensive electronic target, unfortunately there isn't a big enough market to commercially develop it. If shooters had the money to do the development, then they'd just go out and get one of the ones currently available.

How about if we break down the process. Start with the easiest part, maybe the frame, then the electronics, then the software. I have access to a CNC mill, and am trying to learn ATMEL's AVR on and off. We can maybe open source the whole process so anyone can join/pick up the development along the way.