TargetTalk

Whats good, bad and ugly?

Seems the selection is pretty limited: matchguns mg2, benelli mp90, pardini sp, fwb aw93, walther ksp, etc...

How much does the baikal izh 35m give up to the other pistols? And in what ways, I found one for about 600. A pardini sp is 1200.

I don't think that's limited field at all---there are also Morini's. As far as the IZH and clones---I don't think you are giving anything up. This gun beat the brains out of the world for years. If you are entry level you're looking for bargains---but they aren't out there---you will pay through the nose for any of the guns listed . The IZH for example cost me $395 brand new back in 2001---and I have used it for quite a long time now---I could easily ask $500+ for it with Morini grips. You find one for $600 and what is it's condition---I bet it still shoots like a charm. Look for a used Pardini---probably asking around $900. I bought my current Pardini in 2002 for $995---new from Nygord---I have been offered $1200 for the gun, and it has been shot ( believe me) but I keep my equipment in New condition by careful use. So find a gun you would like and pay the piper---but, do not buy an older model of the MG-2---you are buying trouble IMHO.

I too have both. My problem was that I dry fired my Izh way too much and caused to peen badly. I have been able to recover it a few times, buth eventually it starts doubling again. After it doubled 15 times during a match, I decided that no matter how much I love it, I would have to find something I could rely on, day in day out, all the time.

I lucked out with a used SP NEW. Great pistol. Came with custom Pardini grip that fit my hand extremely well. Only complaint is with operator error.

I could score better with the IZH in timed and rapid, when it worked properly, but the Pardini is better for me in slowfire and not that much behind in timed and rapid. In time I should get better with it.

Izh 35 is a great pistol, but it will not last forever.
Pardini is worth the extra$$

Excessive dry firing will not cause the IZH to double, in fact the firing pin design is a good one as far as dry firing is concerned.

Look at the sear engagement to fix the doubling problem.

The pardini is worth an extra 600?

Anonymous wrote:Excessive dry firing will not cause the IZH to double, in fact the firing pin design is a good one as far as dry firing is concerned.

Look at the sear engagement to fix the doubling problem.

In my case the firing pin design is not the problem, the soft metal of the boltface is. Almost all of the doubled cases had no firing pin indentation at all. The rims were fired because the space between the bolt face and the chamber decreased due to peening, effectively decreaseing headspace and crushing the rim.

If they use harder metal, or had a buffer, it would be fantastic.

Still love my Izh, and the Pardini is worth the extra money.

diopter wrote: My problem was that I dry fired my Izh way too much and caused to peen badly.

In my case the firing pin design is not the problem, the soft metal of the boltface is. Almost all of the doubled cases had no firing pin indentation at all. The rims were fired because the space between the bolt face and the chamber decreased due to peening, effectively decreaseing headspace and crushing the rim.

This says that the peening of the bolt is due to the large number of rounds fired, not dry firing. Dry firing might cause damage to the chamber mouth, but not to the bolt face. Or am I misunderstanding?

BTW, I also prefer my Pardini to my IZH - better grips, better trigger, though it does have more recoil. I have never had functioning problems with my IZH.

from Fred's message, where he wrote:

diopter wrote: My problem was that I dry fired my Izh way too much and caused to peen badly.

In my case the firing pin design is not the problem, the soft metal of the boltface is. Almost all of the doubled cases had no firing pin indentation at all. The rims were fired because the space between the bolt face and the chamber decreased due to peening, effectively decreaseing headspace and crushing the rim.

This says that the peening of the bolt is due to the large number of rounds fired, not dry firing. Dry firing might cause damage to the chamber mouth, but not to the bolt face. Or am I misunderstanding?

The peening referenced is from the bolt face contacting the mating surface around the chamber, from cycling the slide to cock the hammer. The IZH is not the only rimfire to display this damage, but the early reports of the IZH described the recess for the cartridge rim to be shallower than other makes to begin with. Even the original slide on my Hammerli 208s peened the face, closing up the recess such that I had trouble with extracting - the round was riding too low in its cutout.

This peening comes from both live and dry firing, but dry firing doesn't offer any closing resistance unless a plug, snap cap or similar is used. In older days, many used a rubber band between the two surfaces for dry firing. This served two purposes, in keeping the firing pin from damaging the chamber and easing the battering of the bolt/slide face. I rarely hear of rubber bands in use any more. I use a Hammerli dry fire plug/flag.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Ed summed it up extremely well.

I started using the Hammerli chamber plugs only after most of the damage was already done. I too thought at first that I could dryfire without causing any damaged, due to the floating firing pin. That pin is too short to hit the chamber wall on it's own without a case rim.

Problem is the the hammer still slams the slide/bolt against the chamber face without a chamber plug. Live and learn.

I might get around one day to try to resolve the issue. I was thinking of adding something to the rear face of the barrel weight to act as a buffer, or some set screws to be able to vary the headspace from that end.

I know of a Canadian Armed forces armorer who milled out the the area behind the case recess on his Izh slide/bolt, and replaced it with a hardened steel rod, held in placed with set screws to adjust the headspace.

Wish I had the time, and the machine shop!