Page 1 of 1
Effect on Training, No AP Recoil
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:27 pm
by PETE S
What is the effect on your training program if you start with the assumption that
1. the AP has negligible recoil
2. any movement is induced by the shooter.
You must work on improving your technique to eliminate the movement you created! Cure the shooter! You are not overcoming the pistol's recoil, you are overcoming yourself. And what is the one thing you do have control over!
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:09 pm
by Cuervo79
Being a newbie on Air pistols (and never really shooting a firearm in my life just a mag on a .45 once) it would be good if people explain how much recoil are they talking about. For example after reading some threads here about AP not having recoil it would be interesting to define the recoil everyone talks about.
While shooting last week and today (I took on account the opinions of AP not having recoil) I certainly feel the movement of the gun, BUT it can be controled with how you grip the pistol.
I as a newbie don´t really consider the air pistol as a BIG recoil, but it does move, and you have to control the movement.
And while reading all this stuff about recoil I got kind of lost, since I do feel the movement on the gun, but I can control it (sometimes yes sometimes no but with practice I will overcome it). So it would be nice if you guys stoped saying that there is no recoil (maybe what you talk about is the force of recoil firearms have). So newbies looking at threads will understand that there is movement but not enough to say "hey its not me the pistol recoiled on me!".
I agree with a modified idea and its this
If your shooting a comp air pistol and when you shoot the sights move, YOU LET THEM MOVE. It is up to you to control the movement so there is no movement when you shoot.
Re: Effect on Training, No AP Recoil
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:18 pm
by Axel
PETE S wrote:What is the effect on your training program if you start with the assumption that
1. the AP has negligible recoil
2. any movement is induced by the shooter.
You must work on improving your technique to eliminate the movement you created! Cure the shooter! You are not overcoming the pistol's recoil, you are overcoming yourself. And what is the one thing you do have control over!
Why this extreme interest in AP recoil? Mussle flip will occur even with Steyr LP10, but why bother, really? Careful trigger work and focus on sights, thats how to shoot tens. Steadiness is also important, but not as important as trigger and sights.
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:44 pm
by deleted1
If your shooting a comp air pistol and when you shoot the sights move, YOU LET THEM MOVE. It is up to you to control the movement so there is no movement when you shoot.. I think what you mean to say is that there will be movement of the sights during the hold ( so-called "wobble zone" )the adage is TO ACCEPT THE MOVEMENT AND CONTINUE THE SQUEEZE. If you are looking for sights that do not move---you would also be disappointed in bench rest shooting---as the sights move there as well, albeit not as much as a hand held pistol.
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:10 pm
by Cuervo79
Bob Riegl wrote:If your shooting a comp air pistol and when you shoot the sights move, YOU LET THEM MOVE. It is up to you to control the movement so there is no movement when you shoot.. I think what you mean to say is that there will be movement of the sights during the hold ( so-called "wobble zone" )the adage is TO ACCEPT THE MOVEMENT AND CONTINUE THE SQUEEZE. If you are looking for sights that do not move---you would also be disappointed in bench rest shooting---as the sights move there as well, albeit not as much as a hand held pistol.
I meant the movement when the trigger releases and the pellet moves, etc.
The wobble IMHO (yes I´m a newbie) you have to calculate when it is in the right place so you can make the shot.
Re: Effect on Training, No AP Recoil
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:45 pm
by Dan F
Axel wrote:Steadiness is also important, but not as important as trigger and sights.
I would dispute that.
Without steadiness you are more likely to snatch at the trigger when sight picture looks right.
I think all 3 are of equal importantance. Steadiness probably more as a platform to perfect the other 2.
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:23 pm
by F. Paul in Denver
Dan makes a very good point. My own experience is that when I'm either not holding steady or simply not trusting my hold on a particular day, I'm much more likely to start snatching.
I think the three components are interrelated and inseparable for me.
F. Paul in Denver
Re: Effect on Training, No AP Recoil
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:43 am
by Axel
Dan F wrote:Axel wrote:Steadiness is also important, but not as important as trigger and sights.
I would dispute that.
Without steadiness you are more likely to snatch at the trigger when sight picture looks right.
I think all 3 are of equal importantance. Steadiness probably more as a platform to perfect the other 2.
Hey, snatching the trigger wouldn't exactly be careful trigger work, right? :-) My point is that bad trigger- and bad sight control is a lot worse than some movement over target.
Othervise, I agree with you.
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:21 am
by RobStubbs
You can still learn good trigger control and shot release with a wobbly gun. Apart from the fact that every shooters gun moves, it is the training that teaches the subconscious when to let the shot go, the sights only need to move into the right area.
If you start snatching then you either haven't trained your subconscious or you're over-ruling it with conscious actions. Both will lead to poor shots.
Rob.
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:41 am
by Dan F
If it were the choice between
a/ a steady hold and a concious release
b/ a wobbly hold and an unconcious release
I know which one I'd prefer.
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:11 am
by Guest
Dan F wrote:If it were the choice between
a/ a steady hold and a concious release
b/ a wobbly hold and an unconcious release
I know which one I'd prefer.
I prefer the best:
c/ a steady hold and an unconcious release
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:26 am
by Guest
Dan F wrote:If it were the choice between
a/ a steady hold and a concious release
b/ a wobbly hold and an unconcious release
I know which one I'd prefer.
Concious release isn't the same thing as snatching the trigger. A concious release can be very precise and careful.
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:48 am
by Steve Swartz
No matter how "steady" your hold, the sights are always moving.
Conscious release of the shot requires an accurate prediciton of how far ahead of time to apply pressure.
No way can you do this consciously.
A lot of people have tried and failed.
Steve Swartz
(accepting the primacy of alignment is not complicated but it sure as heck isn't easy, even for experienced shooters as I found out [again] quite recently)