Pardini HP and bullets

[Slinger]

I recently bought a Padrini HP and have been trying to find a bullet that it likes. This has proven to be quite a challenge, to say the least. I began with H&N in .312 dia and 1.3 grains of V V N310. I didn't really get the groups I would have liked to have seen, so I tried H&N in .313, then .314s. I would always get unexplained (fliers) that would yaw or keyhole badly. This would happen approx 1 in 12 rounds. The (flier) would miss point of aim by maybe 12 to 15 inches sometimes at 25 yards. I have tried hotter loads, all with N310 up to 1.7 grains to no avail. This also happened with Speer 98 grains and Lapua 83 grains as well. I have used NEW Starline brass with CCI primers, and a good roll crimp as well. My suspicions lead me to try a DEBBWC in hard cast. So far so good. But I am stumped!!!! Why will this gun not preform well with HBWC? I did have a very mild roll crimp at first, then increased it thinking need a tad more pressure to (stabalize the bullet). I know that too hot a load can seperate HBWC bullets, but surely this wasn't the case with only 1.3 grains to start? OK all you 32 GURUS,,,,, I need help here

[deleted1]

I also use and shoot a Pardini HP---my load has been from day #1....1.2 grains VVN310, Federal Pistol Primers, Remington Brass, and Meister 100 Grain DEWC. My velocities are in sync with Fiocchi---the gun shoots beautifully up to 25 metres with that load---but the gun and load is NOT intended for the "long line " as "tipping" will and does occur even if the load is upped to 1.6 of VVN310.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

My experience is about the same as yours.The Speers do wobble from 1.3 to 1.5 grs of N310.The Meister DEWC seem to lead more than the Speers. One of the solutions might be a Wilson bbl with a faster twist.I have tried WST,N320 and AA#2-not much change.Most holes in target seem to leave a slight "grease" mark.Ernie

[David M]

Welcome to the world of 32's.
Problems with tumbles, keyholes, fliers and grouping out to 50 m led me to go back to .38's some time ago.

Research into the flies seem's to be a combination of case wall thickness (stiffness) and crimp (type and amount).

[Bill Poole]

mine seems very happy with Lapua 83 gr and even likes the much less expensive 90gr Hornady's.

i use VV N310 and those lighter bullets use 1.5 or more gr of powder,

but the heavier (100gr) bullets want 1.2gr and the dillon powder measure, even with the small charge bar is not reliable with such a light load.

shoot good

Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/

[Axel]

Interesting topic.

What works perfectly for me in my HP 32 is factory made Lapua or Norma ammunition. The only downside is cost - not very cheap ammo.

I tried to replicate Norma/Lapua factory load.(They are hot, lots of recoil and high speed) but with little success. Holes were not round etc. I tried 1.4 - 1.6 grains of vv310 together with Fiocchi primers and Lapua 98gr HBWC bullets. I'm using a taper crimp tool on my Dillon. Perhaps a roll crimp would be better? That's what Norma and Lapua is using.

I will do some more testing with Norma R1 powder. I hope I get better results with it.

Cheers,
Axel

[Reinhamre]

Hi,
Yes, the HP likes to be fed with Norma (Lapua).
Try Vectan Ba10, 1,45 grains and a copper plated bullet 100 grains.
Do not try Norma R-1 powder, it is not manufactured any more.
I have 2 cans for my .38 spec. then it is over.

Kent

[F. Paul in Denver]

My exerience matches Axel's. My HP loves factory Lapua and at nearly $30 USD per box of $50 it damn well should.

I think I have been able to replicate the performance of the Lapua factory ammo by using 1.5 grains of VVN310 under the Lapua 98 grain bullet. This recipe comes from the Vihtavuori reloading manual and an inspection of several disassmebled several factory loads. Side by side chronographing of my load and the factory load indicated virtually no difference in velocity.

For the 83 grain bullet, I use 1.7 grains (also from the VVN manual). THis is the recommended load for the military rapid fire discipline which requires speedier recoil recovery.

Both loads are a little snappy but after all - it's still only a .32 and quite manageable. More important, they perform very well. I save the expensive Lapua factory ammo for 50 yard bullseye shooting.


I reload on a Dillon machine (the Square Deal) which I believe uses what's called an "accucrimp" which is neither a rolll or taper crimp. I got a headache when the Dillon tech explained it to me so I will spare you.


I did try the Speer 98 grain .314 bullets and they turned out to be a total DISASTER. Fliers every 15-20 rounds that landed in the 2 and 3 rings fully broadside. When I randomly measured the bullet diameters on the 5000 Speers I had purchased, I found out why this was happening - less than 30 percent of the bullets measured .314 or greater. Many were in the .312 range.

I learned to first try smalll lots of different brands of bullets when buying a new gun.

I gave a fellow shooter a couple of hundred of the Speers who wanted to try them out in his Hammerli. He got the same results except far less often so he ended up buying the rest of the lot at a deep discount and uses them mostly for practice and informal matches.

Hope all this helps,


F. Paul in Denver

[Axel]

I have done some more testing with my newly bought chronograph, and I got some interesting results.

First of all, primer brands are not the same - I tested Federal small pistol and Fiocchi. Fiocchi averages about 10-15 m/sek lower speed than Federal with the same powder load. Fiocchi also clearly showed more speed deviation - so I will stick with Federal primers!

What I wanted to do is to replicate Norma/Lapua factory loads because it works so good in my Pardini HP. Very good, but expensive.

Norma shell, Federal primer, 1.5 grains vv310, Lapua 98grain bullet together with a minor roll crimp produces exactly the same speed as factory made ammo - around 230m/sek.

Everything is fine and I'm happy...? No, unfortunatly not. Target holes produced with my own reloads are not 100% round, wich is a sign of bullet instabillity. Factory ammo holes are perfectly clean and 100% round.

Suggestions anyone?

/Axel

[Guest]

Axel,

What about groups?? Have you been able to determine that your reloads (which produce not so perfect holes) also produce bigger groups than the factory Lapua stuff??

In the end, its the grouping that matters

[Axel]

I agree about grouping is all that counts. I have not really tested groupings because of the not so good holes.

Non perfect holes from WC bullets is a sign of air-instabillity, ie. bad groupings. Agreed?

[jrmcdaniel]

I don't shoot "powder" but have been reading old copies of Precision Shooting lately and had some thoughts:

1. (Not from the magazine) -- Why not use factory ammo for matches and use the "cheap stuff" for practice?

2. Perhaps the bullet is not "square" with the shell? There are machines sold to measure concentricity for .22s (and others?) or one could use a dial gauge and a V-block to test this.

3. Perhaps the bullets have inclusions/holes that make them out-of-balance during rotation?

Best,

Joe

[Axel]

Thanks for the reply!

I can't really see the point practicing with ammo that doesn't hold the ten-ring. Quality training for me means to be able to call shots, not guessing. Hit tens "with some luck" isn't exactly what I'm looking for. :-)

Bullet is perfecly in line with the shell. Also, Lapua bullets is of high quality. I seriously doubt the problem lies there. But I'll do some testing with H&N bullets.

[R.M.]

A little tid-bit I found long ago. Slug your barrel. I have a Walther that has a barrel that measures .3163". No wonder I had problems shooting .312" DEWC. Once I started casting my own to suit, that particular problem stopped. I'm not saying that you need to start casting, just that if you don't know what size your barrel is, how can you match bullets to it.

Just my ramblings.
R.M.

[JDF]

Accuracy was measured with a Ransom Rest with the Walter. It was awful, could not hold ten-ring at 50 yards with Lapua Factory. 25 yards was so-so. Slugged bore=0.3135", muzzle looked like it was crowned with a center drill, sloppy job almost 3/8" deep. Chucked barrel in lathe, removed old crown and recrowned with 11% crown. Retested in Ransom Rest, Groups improved 10 fold, very easy to keep 10 rds in ISU 50 meter 10 ring at 50 meters with factory Lapua. Then started testing with cast bullets. Visual and weighting of as cast bullets very important. Had Hensley & Gibbs 4 cavity mold both ends bevel based, as cast dia. 0.315 , sized in Star Lubricator to 0.3145". 50 meters in rest, would stay in just barely in 10 ring, but at 25 meters was great. Alloy was wheel weights with 2% tin.

[Axel]

Very interesting JDF! Impressive results indeed. What about hollow base, is that possible when doing home-casting?

I did some tests today with H&N .312 bullets. I got much better results than with Lapua bullets, but still not to my liking. I'll get a big (.314) bullet for slugging. .312 wasn't enough to get proper barrel diameter.

Thanks again for all info! :-)