TargetTalk

I received a Benelli MP90s for Christmas and am interested in learning how to shoot it properly for possible competition soon. I am familiar with American Shooting Centers here in Houston, but would like a place and trainer that would help me become ready for this type of discipline.

Any suggestions on finding such a place and trainer here in Houston?

Snarbles, (a real name?)

There are no posted international events in Houston. The only close events are in Rosenberg and Austin. Austin's events are not always posted through the USA Shooting website so I post a reminder here on the pistol forum.

Good news though. There is an active bullseye community in Houston that hold matches every fourth Sunday. There are several high masters that can help you to learn how to shoot. The next step is twisting that to international by starting with the arm down at 45 degrees, shooting targets with smaller scoring rings, and developing an aristocratic tone. Just kidding! We have enough aristocratic tone in the international community already. See their website at www.bayourifles.org. Attached is their match program in pdf format. It also has contact information.

If you come to Austin, I and Philip Winsborough will help train you. Currently we coach/train UT students, Navy ROTC, and USAS Juniors at the indoor range at UT and hold monthly PTO matches.

Hope this helps.

Lonnie Meyers

Wow, thanks!! just what I was looking for since Houston has everything to offer. I mean, if you have a cool match pistol, you might as well learn to shoot it.

Anyone from Houston on this site that would like to educate me on this subject?

[Lonnie- when is the next Austin Match?]

Next international match in Rosenberg (isn't that close to Houston?) is on May 20th.

If you are not yet a member of USA Shooting or the NRA, you should probably join. With USAS membership, you get a newsletter (USA Shooting News) that includes information about coaching and matches. As an NRA member, you can subscribe to Shooting Sports USA) that has the same information.

A lot of us started out in "Bullseye" type shooting; but that isn't the route I would necessarily go if you are interested in developing the skills for international style shooting in a hurry. Learning to shoot BE type equipment may lead to some hard to break bad habits in your technique and training approach.*

Steve Swartz

*unless you are on the USMC pistol team, where they still (AFAIK) start you off with irons and blank pieces of paper

Steve Swartz wrote: Learning to shoot BE type equipment may lead to some hard to break bad habits in your technique and training approach.*

Steve,

Maybe so, but I have seen one USMC pistol team member shoot FP for the first time and all I can say is - I should only develop such 'bad habits' :-)

Fred

Lonnie wrote:Snarbles, (a real name?)

There are no posted international events in Houston. The only close events are in Rosenberg and Austin. Austin's events are not always posted through the USA Shooting website so I post a reminder here on the pistol forum.

Good news though. There is an active bullseye community in Houston that hold matches every fourth Sunday. There are several high masters that can help you to learn how to shoot. The next step is twisting that to international by starting with the arm down at 45 degrees, shooting targets with smaller scoring rings, and developing an aristocratic tone. Just kidding! We have enough aristocratic tone in the international community already. See their website at www.bayourifles.org. Attached is their match program in pdf format. It also has contact information.

If you come to Austin, I and Philip Winsborough will help train you. Currently we coach/train UT students, Navy ROTC, and USAS Juniors at the indoor range at UT and hold monthly PTO matches.

Hope this helps.

Lonnie Meyers

I noticed on most of the bullseye photos that they are shooting .45 1911 variants and mine is a .22 LR. Will my .22 qualify for thier bullseye matches?

Fred Mannis wrote:

Steve Swartz wrote: Learning to shoot BE type equipment may lead to some hard to break bad habits in your technique and training approach.*

Steve,

Maybe so, but I have seen one USMC pistol team member shoot FP for the first time and all I can say is - I should only develop such 'bad habits' :-)

Fred

Steve saying that they train the USMC Pistol guys well its the other Bullseye shooters that pick up the bad habits.

Yeah Fred missed the * about the bad habits . . . .

Steve

What bad habits?

snarbles wrote:I noticed on most of the bullseye photos that they are shooting .45 1911 variants and mine is a .22 LR. Will my .22 qualify for thier bullseye matches?

An NRA Conventional Pistol (aka Bullseye) match has three stages (45 caliber pistol, Centerfire pistol, and rimfire pistol) and each stage has three courses of fire (slow fire at 50 yds, timed fire at 25 yds, and rapid fire at 25 yds).

Since a 45 cal. pistol also meets the requirements of a centerfire pistol, msot shooters use the same for both.

See here: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ for more details.

What bad habits (so I can improve my game)?

Not sure, but I believe the following is going to be perceived as controversial . . .


The problem is not that BE shooting is incompatible with international shooting per se, but that skills required for international shooting will not (can not? may not?) be developed as one progresses in BE.

Fundamentally, pistol shooting excellence (per the experts, not just "one man's humble [or otherwise] opinion") comes down to a very simple (but exceedingly difficult- more on that in a bit) process.

You have to properly align the sights (and keep them as perfectly aligned as possible; isolating this variable), settle to the best of your ability on any given day into your aiming area, and then release the shot subconsciously while not disturbing the sight alignment.

The problem with BE has to do with the dot.

[Those of you who knew me from the old Bullseye-L list server will note I have done a 180 on this since a few years ago. Some skills that work for BE not only don't work, but can impede progress, in irons shooting. I am also waiting for Ed Hall to chime in here- this may be one area where we disagree.]

Back to the dot.

Shooting with a dot removes one of the three key elements of pistol shooting excellence from the formula- sight alignment. While the dot skills can be translated, they translate differently.

Irons: embracing the counterintuitive idea that as long as sight alignment is perfect (very important), and sights are settled, good trigger control will result in shots falling well inside of "call;"

Dots: embracing the counterintuitive idea that as long as the dot is hovering somewhere in the region of the aiming black (most important), and the dot is somewhere in the vicinity of the center of the tube, good trigger control will result in shots faling well inside of "call."

If a shooter gets to the point of recognizing that the basic principle is the important one- and is the same principle really in both cases- then everything is o.k. and training spillover can take place between dot and iron shooting.

Basic principle: aim doesn't matter and can't be controlled anyhow; alignment and good trigger control must dominate in order to train your subconscious to calculate release timing.

Not sure this clears it up much but I have come 180 to acknowledge that the USMC does it right- iron sights, blank paper, shoot for group size ONLY (which requires alignment and trigger control ONLY) until the most important lesson of pistol shooting is learned AND INTERNALIZED.

Dots are just a way to simplify the process; but can only help*after* the subconscious release/trust the process is believed and automatic.

Here's the opinion part: if you are shooting BE and aren't yet breaking 2600 (well, o.k., 2570 ish) then you don't get it yet and are stuck in the "bad habits" I was talking about. To improve your BE scores, take the dots off and learn how to shoot.

Let the Games Begin! (donning asbestos gear)

Steve Swartz

I don't see what is so controversial about shooting BE exclusively with irons. In fact, that is exactly what I plan on doing in order to achieve my goal of becoming a Distinguished Pistol Shot.

Yep!! iron sites in bulleye is the old school way and for those that prefect the craft with irons will still win over the red dots.