TargetTalk

This weekend I flew to Salt Lake City for a match with a gun case weighing nearly 10 pounds over the 50 pound limit for checked baggage.

On my way out of Denver, the customer service rep told me I would have to pay $25 which I was happy to do. When I pulled out a $100 bill, she sort of frowned and then said, "Oh . . . nevermind."

On my way back to Denver when I again offered to pay cash (same $100 bill), the check in guy said, "Forget it." He later confided that handling cash is a huge pain the ass and that making change is an even bigger headache.

TIP: If you got FAT bags, offer to pay with a FAT bill - you may just save yourself enough dough for some very nice meals to make you forget about the peanuts you got on the airplane.



F. Paul in Denver

That trick used to work to get free drinks on the plane. Arthur Hailey first reported it in his novel, Airport: If the stewardess couldn't change your bill (in the days where they were all stewardesses) they gave you the drink free. The airlines had a policy of avoiding anything that might upset the customer. (I did say this was a long time ago, didn't I, before air travel became Greyhound of the Sky with a cavity search.)

I can attest it worked. Got quite a number of free drinks that way (though it did only work for one drink per flight.) But I guess they've figured out it's not like you're going anywhere (or like they give a damn if you're pissed as hell), so now they take your money and promise to be back with change.

But it's nice to know the big bill trick still works for some things. Restores your faith in humanity (or whatever.)

p.s. Thank you, Paul. This silly excuse for a post now moves me into the exhalted ranks of the "Top 20" posters. (By volume, not value.)

Nicole Hamilton wrote: This silly excuse for a post now moves me into the exhalted ranks of the "Top 20" posters. (By volume, not value.)

And in less than two months :-)

Now that you are into FP, come and join the FP board. We cuold use some lively discussion. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Free_Pistol/

Fred Mannis wrote:Now that you are into FP, come and join the FP board.

I'm there! I just haven't yet posted. (Obviously, I was focusing my energies.)

Nicole shoots FP on Monday nites.....no time to post. Focus. :-)

Surprised nobody else has weighed in here. Or maybe not.

The overweight charges and charges for drinks (!) are legitimate and legal fees to cover the cost of running a business.

Cheating *anyone* out of what is due them (and that's what it is, regardless of how you try to rationalize it) used to be considered at least "poor form" in polite society.

Steve Swartz

Steve Swartz wrote:Surprised nobody else has weighed in here. Or maybe not.

The overweight charges and charges for drinks (!) are legitimate and legal fees to cover the cost of running a business.

Cheating *anyone* out of what is due them (and that's what it is, regardless of how you try to rationalize it) used to be considered at least "poor form" in polite society.

Steve Swartz

Give me a break! By the way he didn't cheat anyone he offered to pay just because they are too lazy to accept cash or make change that's their problem and it shouldn't be yours.

Yeah, it's not like he was trying to pay in pennies! He was trying to pay a $25 charge with a $100 bill. How different is that from trying to pay a $5 charge with a $20 -- or is that impolite also?

I wont rationalize Steve - you are absolutely correct. Charges for overweight baggage are completely legitimate. They are every bit as legitimate as the currency I offered to pay my fair share with.

While I have the utmost respect for your literary contributions (many of which I have cut and pasted to my shooting bench), I do not share your moral compass. To label someone as a "cheat" under these circumstances is petty and beneath you. I am both surprised and disappointed.

The world already has enough policemen.

F. Paul in Denver

F. Paul:

I truly regret that this discussion is public. Please contact me offline at leslieswartz@charter.net.

Steve Swartz

{TIP: If you got FAT bags, offer to pay with a FAT bill - you may just save yourself enough dough for some very nice meals to make you forget about the peanuts you got on the airplane.}

Hmmm...get away with it once because they can't handle the change and I'd say it was an honest error in your favor. On the other hand -- do it "consistently" because you know they prefer not to deal in large sums of cash I'd say Steve's conclusion was spot on.

Dick

Dick wrote:On the other hand -- do it "consistently" because you know they prefer not to deal in large sums of cash I'd say Steve's conclusion was spot on.

How is this different than the "revenue maximization" plans the airlines use to adjust the fare prices on-the-fly based on sophisticated computer models of what the customer might pay at any given moment? Did you realize they even track what offers you personally have previously accepted or declined to decide what to offer next? If you're buying online (as most of us do, these days), one favorite trick is to raise the fare if you don't accept immediately; that's to make you afraid it'll go even higher if you don't act now. But if you still don't accept, they'll lower it again later, based on your individual behavior.

I think you live in a fairy tale world if you think dealing with an airline isn't a cutthroat, highly competitive situation.

This is way off topic for the board -- so, this is my last post on the subject. You can rationalize it any way you want if it makes you feel any better....but the practice as described makes me personally uncomfortable.

I work in an office with 22 Air Force officers -- all Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. I posed the scenario to about half of them -- big surprise -- ALL of them came to the same conclusion Steve and I did. But we work in a different world (Steve's retired USAF by the way) where the Uniform Code of Military Justice classifies some things as "crimes" that would not even come close to getting you fined/put in jail in the civilian community. Perhaps that explains the difference in perspectives.

Dick

PS: Your analogy is mixing apples and oranges. The airlines price their fares based on seat cost per mile (fuel, labor, maint etc) and plain old supply and demand -- it's a complicated business model which I studied in-depth for my under grad degree. Gaming to get out of a $25 baggage fee because you know they can't handle making change is an entirely different matter.

I think you live in a fairy tale world if you think dealing with an airline isn't a cutthroat, highly competitive situation.

Please tell me what isn't, the local bank, auto repair center, insurance company, car dealer, phone company, Cable Company? Ever talk to any producer of anything who sells to Wal-Mart? Now that's my definition of cut throat, they will cut you down to break even if they can.

It is a business like any other, save the weight of Government regulation. It is also a business where more than a few are under the supervision of the court while restructuring, or attempting to prevent ending up there by cutting jobs, flights and overhead where they can. They have also been pressured by less than stable fuel prices.
I can assure you that the good airlines I know appreciate their customers, as does any good business. As the point of contact the ticket agents, gate agents, and flight crews want you to be satisfied, their job is on the line, perhaps their pension too, and they know it. (some have already had their pensions trashed) A comped drink here or there or waiving a weight over limit fee isn't that big a deal to them if it creates a happy loyal customer. They really do want you to enjoy the experience if possible so when you fly again you fly with them. If you are a good customer, and polite/nice you will most likely get comped/upgraded sometimes anyway. The next time you are comped, get the name of the agent or flight attendant and drop a note to their supervisors telling them of the good service you received. They sometimes also like to hear about things they do right too.
Maybe you want to go back to the Airline industry of 35 years ago, pre-deregulation. It was nice. It was also (factoring inflation) far far more expensive to fly. And the airlines were making money then too. The food was far better then. Those days are long gone now.

Dick wrote:I work in an office with 22 Air Force officers -- all Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. I posed the scenario to about half of them -- big surprise -- ALL of them came to the same conclusion Steve and I did. But we work in a different world (Steve's retired USAF by the way) where the Uniform Code of Military Justice classifies some things as "crimes" that would not even come close to getting you fined/put in jail in the civilian community. Perhaps that explains the difference in perspectives.

Or perhaps knowing how the scenario was posed could explain it. Consider how special interest groups conduct random polls that always -- big surprise -- manage to say what they want. It's all about wording the question to get the answer you want. There's also a big difference between what people say they do when asked and what they actually do when no one's looking.

Dick wrote:The airlines price their fares based on seat cost per mile (fuel, labor, maint etc) and plain old supply and demand -- it's a complicated business model which I studied in-depth for my under grad degree.

How old are you and when was this??? Deregulation didn't happen until the 1980s and direct online purchases of airline tickets by consumers didn't happen until the 1990s. Tracking individual customers is newer than that. But when was the last time you bought a quart of milk without being asked for a membership card that let the supermarket track your behavior? It's all about collecting data about the customer and using that to make more money. And it's the airlines who've always been most out in front on this work. Finally, although some research outlining the current state of the art does get published, any dynamic pricing model actually in use by a real company is going to be a closely-guarded trade secret, in part because when customers find out how they're being gamed, they get mad. [1]

Dick wrote:This is way off topic for the board -- so, this is my last post on the subject. You can rationalize it any way you want if it makes you feel any better....but the practice as described makes me personally uncomfortable.

I work in an office with 22 Air Force officers -- all Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. I posed the scenario to about half of them -- big surprise -- ALL of them came to the same conclusion Steve and I did. But we work in a different world (Steve's retired USAF by the way) where the Uniform Code of Military Justice classifies some things as "crimes" that would not even come close to getting you fined/put in jail in the civilian community. Perhaps that explains the difference in perspectives.

Dick

PS: Your analogy is mixing apples and oranges. The airlines price their fares based on seat cost per mile (fuel, labor, maint etc) and plain old supply and demand -- it's a complicated business model which I studied in-depth for my under grad degree. Gaming to get out of a $25 baggage fee because you know they can't handle making change is an entirely different matter.

That's why on a business trip my boss and I each paid $1500 for an economy class ticket from Toronto to Wisconsin. The ticket agent at the gate couldn't even beleive the fare. The people sitting around us paid $156, 175, 185, 230, 245, 320, 545. So were they traveling more miles using different fuel and their plane was maintained differently??? Spare me the officer and gentlemen routine, there are just as many bad apples in the military as there are in the civilian world (remember Tailhook and all the other military scandals). I don't beleive we should even get into that discussion, I only brought it up because you opened the door on the subject.

You should also read more carefully.

On my way back to Denver when I again offered to pay cash (same $100 bill), the check in guy said, "Forget it." He later confided that handling cash is a huge pain the ass and that making change is an even bigger headache.

A pain in the ass is not the same as not being able to handle cash, like I said before just because they are to lazy shouldn't be your problem.

So here is the questions what would you and your fellow officers do if you actually only had $100 bill. What about all the freebies that good well meaning people extend to the people in the military (I beleive they deserve them so, no arguement there), should they they refuse to except them? When you are in a store and the bill comes to $10.02 and you give the clerk a twenty and they give you $10 back do you insist on them giving you $9.98 back?

Being in enforcement I do understand about accepting things while in uniform. I agree that while traveling in uniform it would be poor practice and could get you in trouble if you excepted gifts. But remember these people are civilians who excersise no power or control over the airline or their employees.

Folks,

I think if we all step back and take a deep breath, we can at least agree on one thing - the evolution of this thread now makes it way off topic.

May I suggest that as a gesture of respect to our hosts that we each muster up the necessary restraint to get back to the real purpose of this great board - a marketplace of ideas dealing with the shooting sports?

Tens and X's to all,

F. Paul

Anonymous wrote:Folks,

I think if we all step back and take a deep breath, we can at least agree on one thing - the evolution of this thread now makes it way off topic.

May I suggest that as a gesture of respect to our hosts that we each muster up the necessary restraint to get back to the real purpose of this great board - a marketplace of ideas dealing with the shooting sports?

Tens and X's to all,

F. Paul

Yes back to the "what's the best XXXX".