TargetTalk

Me and my coach were working on trying to put my off hand in different spots last week, like my pocket or handing on to my belt and that Got me thinking what's important about the off hand? Does it need to balance out the body and keep your shoulders aligned?
Just wondering about this because I notice some shooters have their hands in the back pocket while others are hoding on to their belt buckles and some on a side pocket...

HI

I usually put my hand in my offhand pocket. I noticed in the Camp Perry pictures on Bullseye.com, many people put their thumb in their belt so that their arm is across their stomach. That's uncomfortable to me. Personally, I'm sure if you are comfortable and not pulling one way or the other, you'll be fine.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to practice incorrectly.

Mike
Wichita KS

Just about any place is fine; the important considerations are-
a. Your non-shooting hand and arm are relaxed, and
b. They don't move when you fire the pistol.

Others may offer differing views.

Richard

I do the same as Mike. I've watched a lot of folks put their thumbs over the belts, but it doesn't seem comfortable to me, either. I'm right-handed, so my left hand goes the left front pocket of my jeans. I like to have something in that pocket to grab, so I'll have something to do with my fingers. I used to grab my car keys or whatever I had there but have kind of settled on using a packet of tissues and emptying everything else out of the pocket before the match.

The placement of the off hand is somewhat personal, but there are some things to consider (in Conventional Pistol at least).

Having the hand on the belt, not in a pocket or other constrained area, can help if you wish to try to clear a malfunction (important on refire strings for Conventional where you will lose 10 points for every unfired round). Now the odds are pretty slim, but it's there.

The mid body, belt type position seems to be favored by Zins and others from the military training units.

You will see other hardball and wad shooters put the hand in the pocket and keep the arm extremely stiff (apparently as a form of recoil control). I would not recommend that.

The main point from my opinion is to have a consistent, relaxed and repeatable position. At one time, I was like Nicole and actuall held a magazine in the off hand pocket (with the same grip strength as my gun grip) just to see if I could get a more consistent grip by having both hand doing kinda the same thing at the same time. I did not see any particular results, however I do feel like it was a good training exercise.

Cecil

I have seen the French FP & AP ace Dumoulin use a belt (military???) hanging loosely around his waist to hook his thumb. It works out roughly to the bottom of the zipper fly. I tried this after seeing him ( what a cool shooter ) and it seemed to be much more comfortable then at the waste line---it totally relaxes the body and the hand is relatively free. Of course you might have to deal with some "funny" remarks from the sideline.

I put my off hand or non shooting hand as close as I can below my bellybutton with my thumb hocked in my belt and then let my arm hang loose slightly dropping my non-shooting shoulder. I find this is close to the center of balance and very comfortable and has worked with good results.

Coaching advice I've had favours the belt buckle placing (which is what I use). I'm sure there was a technical reason given but I can't remember it off hand.

Rob.

As with most things related to shooting, if you are comfortable and can do it the same every time then you probably aren't doing it wrong.

I've shot a bow for a few years and I'm not going to lie to ya I'm a rookie with big dreams when it comes to AP.
I know in archery every thing matters and there is a wrong or write black or white way of things but this pistol is a whole different thing from any kind of shooting!
Like I said I'll hook my thumb in my off hand pocket but I feel tention in my off shoulder... Maybe I'll try holding onto my hick buckle:P When I train today.
Like when I started last year my coach had me holding my belt right above my side pocket on my britches then I started leaning forward and was really tence. But we cleaned it up and started with the thumb in my pocket and stood straighter, but I guess I need to train harder to get used to the new (good) form because I can't hold a nine ring anymore...

I read somewhere (I think in Yur'yev's book) about the relative position of the off-hand. If I remember correctly, he favored hooking the thumb into your belt at the mid body position just below your belly button. The pants pocket and hand hanging loosely by the side were lesser options but were acceptable if that's where you are comfortable.

A lot of the Russians used three-quarter length leather jackets and in the photos appear to have their hands into pockets in front of the jackets. This position would approximate the belt-hook position.

The absolute no-no was perching your hand on your hip because it caused one of the back muscles to be in the wrong position to have a stable shooting platform. I will dig out the book and re-read the section.

I tried holding on to my belt buckle and it felt like my arm was more supported and relaxed and I got some nice groups...

When I first started shooting I tried both and settled on the "hand in pcket." Later when I was doing gun holding exercises and first shot drills my body was getting tired after the first couple of sets of ten. For grins I tried the belt buckle position and was able to continue through a few more sets.

Additionally I've been dry firing a lot more since I no longer have much time to get to the range. Having my non-shooting hand out of my pocket allows me to more easily cock the hammer between shots.

For these reasons I'm making the move to the belt position

The belt buckle is the favoured position by those of us that coach in the U.K.
It supports the non shooting arm, lowers the shoulder, thus relaxing the upper part of the non shooting side of the body.

Some people cannot do this however, so do what ever is comfortable, if it hurts its wrong, just remember there should be no tension in any of the muscles, if you have hold of something in your pocket you are adding tension where it is not needed, and your sub conscious thoughts are on what you are holding, not on your shooting.

P30man wrote:... just remember there should be no tension in any of the muscles, if you have hold of something in your pocket you are adding tension where it is not needed ...

Well, yes, if you grab it tightly. But if all you're doing is wrapping your hand around it loosely (as I do, wrapping my hand around a package of tissues, never mind that I referred to it imprecisely as "grabbing") the effect is quite different, transferring pressure from your knuckles to your palm, reducing the tension.

I was taught by Dan Iuga, a former US National Team coach, to hook your thumb inside your pants,shorts about in the middle. The reasoning has been touched on here but not completely. It brings your arm in close to your body and center of mass and keeps it from "hanging in the breeze" if you will. The second thing was mentioned earlier and that is repeatability. If you put your hand in your pants pocket, that would be fine if you always wore the same pants. Some pockets are deep some are not. Some are in different locations. No matter what you are wearing, the location of the top of them where you would hook your thumb remains pretty much the same. Those were the two main reasons for placing your off hand there.

I'll tell you that I've done that so often it became like the fetal position. It was comfortable to me and I still find myself putting my arm there quite often. Even though I've hardly shot it 6 years.

This isn't an extremely important technique as far as how it can effect your scores. However I personally think this is a right or wrong technique. Some of those little things you can do can certainly add up. Especially when you have complete control over them. Arm placement, when and what you eat before a match, showing up with plenty of time, loosening up before walking on the line, etc.

Eddy Esworthy

Eddy Esworthy wrote:I was taught by Dan Iuga, a former US National Team coach, to hook your thumb inside your pants,shorts about in the middle. The reasoning has been touched on here but not completely. It brings your arm in close to your body and center of mass and keeps it from "hanging in the breeze" if you will. The second thing was mentioned earlier and that is repeatability. If you put your hand in your pants pocket, that would be fine if you always wore the same pants. Some pockets are deep some are not. Some are in different locations. No matter what you are wearing, the location of the top of them where you would hook your thumb remains pretty much the same. Those were the two main reasons for placing your off hand there.

I'll tell you that I've done that so often it became like the fetal position. It was comfortable to me and I still find myself putting my arm there quite often. Even though I've hardly shot it 6 years.

This isn't an extremely important technique as far as how it can effect your scores. However I personally think this is a right or wrong technique. Some of those little things you can do can certainly add up. Especially when you have complete control over them. Arm placement, when and what you eat before a match, showing up with plenty of time, loosening up before walking on the line, etc.

Eddy Esworthy

Yeah your right about the different britches, I got about 2 styles of pats Carhartt and Wranglers and the pockets are totally difference between the two and that's about 2 inches or more!

Eddy Esworthy wrote:I was taught by Dan Iuga, a former US National Team coach, to hook your thumb inside your pants,shorts about in the middle. The reasoning has been touched on here but not completely. It brings your arm in close to your body and center of mass and keeps it from "hanging in the breeze" if you will. The second thing was mentioned earlier and that is repeatability.
Eddy Esworthy

There's a bit more to it than that as I recall - as taught by my current national coach. Their are musculo skeletal reasons why the front 'belt buckle' position is preferred I just can't remember what it is <note to self read my coaching notes> It has nothing to do with centre of mass though or repeatability - the rear trouser (pants) pocket would function just as well if that were the case.

Rob.

As taught by Dan Iuga, Arnie Vitarbo, and the late Art Sievers, there is really no right or wrong location to put the off hand. You are getting too technical about where you put something so trivial as the hand that does nothing to make a hole in the paper. You put it where it feels comfortable to you. Some poople put their off hand in their pocket, some in ther belt, and some just let it hang down. Wherever you can put it so it does not influence your shot is the correct place to put it. It's that simple. Good luck to you.

OK, I'll bite on this one. I was working with a coach last year who made a recomendation that has made a tremendous impact on my shooting stance. I learned to shoot pistol with my hand in my pocket and switched to the "thumb in the belt" method when I noticed that many world class shooters utilized this method.
Try this. Instead of hooking your thumb in your belt, reach across your torso and grab your belt or beltloop. (Don't overdoo it. Reach as far as is comfortable.) As you prepare for your shot, gently tighten your off arm. The resulting action will tighten your upper body and stiffen your frame.
I know this is contrary to the more common techniques by not completely relaxing the off shoulder but it works. It took a little practice but it works wonders for stiffening my upper body.
It's worth a try. I hope it works for someone else. Whatever you do, be consistant and comfortable.
Happy shooting!