rapid fire turing targets

[H2DE]

Those of you that shoot rapid fire events, do you know what they use to turn the bank of targets? Our club has said we could try this if I can come up with away to make the targets turn any Ideas? thanks for infor and where to look for more. Don H.

[David Levene]

I have seen systems operated by compressed air, electric motors and electro-magnets.

I don't believe that one method is intrinsically better than the others. What really matters is how well the overall turning mechanism is designed and constructed.

As a general tip, it seems to be easier to design a system that will only take ISSF targets rather than one that will also take "action event" targets. The smaller target boards require less power to turn efficiently and produce less bounce.

[sparky]

Instead of turning targets, it would be much easier to use five stationary targets and use an IPSC-style shot timer (available for about $50-150 depending on the model).

You can do a search on the topic.

[Ted Bell]

Here's a page from our host's website that shows how to make one. I think Ed, the author, still frequents Target Talk. Any updates on your design Ed?

http://www.pilkguns.com/coach/Turning_.htm

I also discovered that doing a Google search for "Turning Targets" returns several companies that sell them, in case just buying them outright is an option.

Good luck,
Ted

[Ed Hall]

I do have updates and newer designs; even a newer, smaller/cheaper system I'm testing right now. It is designed to use a 12" tall by 10.5" wide backer. I also have an "in work" design for a cheap auxiliary frame to add targets to the earlier single unit. But all my units, other than the "smaller/cheaper" one, turn rather slow for Rapid Fire training. The newer one still takes around a fifth of a second and this one won't turn additional frames like the larger units. I don't think five individual turners, not connected together, would look quite right as they turned at slightly different speeds. I did build one five target bay for someone to use with air pistol a few years ago, but again the turning was not up to the true speed. I never placed that design up at my site.

Personally, I think it would be better for aspiring Rapid Fire shooters to train with a light system since that's what they will use at the larger matches and it is simpler to build. For training, I wouldn't worry about the late sensor at first. You can tell if you were close. I would use LEDs instead of incandescent bulbs though, because the bulbs tend to take longer to light. The LEDs are instantaneous. To later build a late sensor into the system, simply add a hit sensor switch to the last target and have it only operable during the on time for the red LEDs. If someone is interested I can design a simple circuit and put it up at my site. I suppose if I registered, I could even put it up here.

The second site listed below my name has the latest information on my do-it-yourself designs, except for the "smaller/cheaper" and auxilliary frame designs. They will show up after I finish testing and writing everything. I do build these units, but I'm extrememly slow because I do them on an order basis and have so many things going at once that I'm never caught up with everything, so we're talking a few months out.

If there is interest, I'll draw up a cheap light timer cicuit in the next few days. It won't be anything super precise, but it should be OK for initial training.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[Ted Bell]

Ed-
It'd be great if you could post a timer circuit design on the web somehow. I built a Rapid Fire light setup using a GrayLab darkroom timer that was triggered by a Pact timer. The Pact timer would count down to zero & turned the Graylab on, which was set for the proper time interval. The advantage of having the Pact timer in the loop is that it would record the times of each shot, and I could see if I went over on time. I ran the Graylab via a 12v DC battery through an inverter, but the problem I soon realized was that using the inverter created some inaccuracy in the Graylab, and even ignoring that problem it was impossible to set the dial for exactly 4.0 seconds- 4 seconds on the dial might be anywhere from 3.8 to 4.2 seconds or so. So, I just gave up on the lights and used the Pact timer audibly. I also never figured out how to incorporate any kind of late shot sensor without using the Pact timer, so any ideas you might have on the subject would be most welcomed.

Thanks,
Ted

[Guest]

For something quick I put up a shot of the circuit for a five switch timer, a modification of something I made a while ago. It isn't tested but the other unit worked fine and this isn't that much different. It isn't a schematic, but I often go from concept to circuit board without drawing out a schematic. There are a couple things to look out for in the shot though. This is probably due to the bleeding of the .jpg image, but I may have to clean it up a bit before I was to print and etch a board. Most notable is that the top of SW7 isn't connected to the trace right above it. It is only connected to the trace that runs to the bottom of R12. Additionally, the two resistors labelled as 560 ohms for the LEDs will probably need to be decreased to get much illumination.

The image is at:

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/MultiTimerTT.JPG
(These are both top, component side, views)

This design provides five separate times, each chosen by its own switch. If two switches are on, they will interfere and produce a separate time. I'm not sure how accurate you could this one either, but it should be pretty good. You would have to use an external device to calibrate each timer section, but it should be rather stable after that. R2 through R6 are the adjustments for the five timer sections and R1 adjusts the delay after the start switch is pressed before the actual signal is started.

A note about the relay: The coil pins are the two lowest and the next pin up on each side (these are the output to the LEDs) is the common for that side. The next pin up is the normally closed and the final (top) pin on each side is the normally open.

The basic concept is a two-wire polarity switched 12 volt DC signal at the output. This way you can use a simple speaker wire, lamp cord, etc. to supply the signal to the LEDs. Place the LEDs in parallel with opposite polarity and any dropping resistors needed across the cable and you have red with one polarity and green with the other. That way when you turn on the device, it powers up with what we'll call positive polarity and illuminates the red LED(s). During the timer time, the polarity is reversed by K1 (relay) and this turns off the red LED(s) and illuminates the green LED(s). Then when the signal ends the polarity switches back.

As for the late shot sensor, all you need is a small microphone element and a small circuit to energize a relay set up to latch itself if tripped. Connect this into the cable for the lights such that it can only work when the polarity is set for red illumination. That way you can have the relay illuminate a separate LED for a late shot and it can only catch one if the red is clearly on. Then as you switch to green the next time, the relay drops out and cuts off the separate late indicator.

I will try to provide more info later including a better circuit diagram and a parts list, but maybe you can make something of what's there for now.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

[Eddy]

We make rapid fire bays for $2500 plus shipping. They are all aluminum and stainless steel. They are of the low profile design using a foam or wood/cardboard backer. The mechanism is pneumatic and comes complete with timer and cable. You only need an air supply.

We also manufacture an air pistol target changer for $199.

eddy@targetworx.com