OK, the idea of a handpump is inviting to me, as then I would need nothing else ever I presume? At least for supplying air...
But what are the downsides of both fill mechanisms, pump vs. tank?
Is the pump hard to pump? I mean I lift weights a lot, but will it be something my grandma can do, or just me? ; )
Thanks,
John
Question about Handpump vs. Scuba Tank.
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
I assume you are refilling pistol cylinders? I shoot an Anschutz LP@, and use an FX high pressure pump to recharge my cylinders. Two reasons for this - NZ has fairly strict rules around scuba tank ownership and refilling, and I live in a rural area, and would have to trek into town to get a scuba tank refilled, albeit not especially often. Also, the handpump option means I can fly to competitions without concerns about a supply of air at my destination.
As to pumping effort - I'm 58 years young, and no athelete, but I have absolutely no problem pumping up my cylinders. It takes me 2 minutes of mild effort, which doesn't even leave me out of breath. I take the precaution of only refilling cylinders indoors, in a warm/low humidity environment, and I bleed off my pump every time to prevent moisture getting into the cylinders. Once a month I completely evacuate both cylinders in case any moisture has built ip in them.
The other option - a scuba tank - is outside my experience, so I'll leave it to others to advise you on that. Hope this helps.
kiwi47
As to pumping effort - I'm 58 years young, and no athelete, but I have absolutely no problem pumping up my cylinders. It takes me 2 minutes of mild effort, which doesn't even leave me out of breath. I take the precaution of only refilling cylinders indoors, in a warm/low humidity environment, and I bleed off my pump every time to prevent moisture getting into the cylinders. Once a month I completely evacuate both cylinders in case any moisture has built ip in them.
The other option - a scuba tank - is outside my experience, so I'll leave it to others to advise you on that. Hope this helps.
kiwi47
-
mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi
If you have ANY access to a dive shop, the cylinder is the way to go, BECAUSE if you need air during a match, you don't want to have to pump a high pressure pump, getting YOUR pump (I.e. heart) pumping. The pumps are fine at home, and if you have several FULL cylinders, but not if you need air during a match.
Mike
Wichita KS
If you have ANY access to a dive shop, the cylinder is the way to go, BECAUSE if you need air during a match, you don't want to have to pump a high pressure pump, getting YOUR pump (I.e. heart) pumping. The pumps are fine at home, and if you have several FULL cylinders, but not if you need air during a match.
Mike
Wichita KS
-
F. Paul in Denver
John,
Filling up an air pistol cylinder with a hand pump is good exercise but you should avoid doing it immediately before you shoot since it will take some of the wind out of most people. (I live at 8000 feet so it doesnt take much to take my breath away).
If you must make a choice between the two - a pump might be a better way to start. It's ALWAYS available and ready to go. You can also take it to matches with you if you're shooting over multiple days and dont want to depend on anyone else for your air supply.
Later on and esp if you shoot alot of air, you may want to invest in a SCUBA tank. It is an extremely convenient and fast way to recharge. When the SCUBA tanks starts running low, you can use the pump to top off the cylinders with just a few strokes.
Many dive shops will recharge your SCUBA tank even though you are not a certified diver. They will first ask to you sign a waiver in which you assure them you are not going to be using it for dive related purposes and that you hold them harmless for any injuries you sustain. Before
buying the tank, check with your local dive shops to make sure they will accomodate you and then buy the tank from the shop who is willing to fill it for you.
They will more than likely have used tanks available which are perfectly suitable to the task for less than $100. If you get a tank, you will also need to buy a K - Valve to 200 DIN Yoke adapter for about $55 which our host sells at:
http://www.pilkguns.com/yoke.htm
Good shooting to you
Paul
Filling up an air pistol cylinder with a hand pump is good exercise but you should avoid doing it immediately before you shoot since it will take some of the wind out of most people. (I live at 8000 feet so it doesnt take much to take my breath away).
If you must make a choice between the two - a pump might be a better way to start. It's ALWAYS available and ready to go. You can also take it to matches with you if you're shooting over multiple days and dont want to depend on anyone else for your air supply.
Later on and esp if you shoot alot of air, you may want to invest in a SCUBA tank. It is an extremely convenient and fast way to recharge. When the SCUBA tanks starts running low, you can use the pump to top off the cylinders with just a few strokes.
Many dive shops will recharge your SCUBA tank even though you are not a certified diver. They will first ask to you sign a waiver in which you assure them you are not going to be using it for dive related purposes and that you hold them harmless for any injuries you sustain. Before
buying the tank, check with your local dive shops to make sure they will accomodate you and then buy the tank from the shop who is willing to fill it for you.
They will more than likely have used tanks available which are perfectly suitable to the task for less than $100. If you get a tank, you will also need to buy a K - Valve to 200 DIN Yoke adapter for about $55 which our host sells at:
http://www.pilkguns.com/yoke.htm
Good shooting to you
Paul
altenate air supply
One method of filling cylinders that has not seen much discussion is for a club to rent a cylinder of compressed air from an industrial gas supplier. When it runs low, get a changeover. Rent the largest size ( about 9 cubic metres), and it will last for ages. We have done this at our club for 3 years, the adaptors that come with the pistols fit the cylinders (or they did until recently when the manufactures changed the fitting). A very cost effective way to supply air.
-
VR
An additional expense incurred with scuba tanks is the need for a visual inspection of the interior (approx $15), required once per year, and a hydrostatic test (approx. $50) every five years. Any dive shop should be able to conduct/arrange for the tests, which are required to certify the tank is in good condition. Without the inspection stickers, SCUBA shops will most likely refuse to fill your tank. If shoot a lot, paying for the extra convenience of a tank may be worth it to you. I'm a SCUBA diver, so I go with the tank. Everyone else at the local club uses pumps; I've never heard them complain. Some motherhood: If you do fill from a tank, open the valve and fill your cylinder SLOWLY, don't crank the valve wide open.
Pumps are worse because they impart moisture into the cylinders if your not very careful. The pumps need to be bled dry after each use and that is a pain. Scuba tanks last for 6-9 months and cost almost nothing to refil. In the UK anyone can own them with no restrictions and they only need to be tested every 5 years - which I believe takes a few days but doesn't cost too much.
As an aside if you get or use a compressor make sure it delivers clean (non greasy) and dry air.
Rob.
As an aside if you get or use a compressor make sure it delivers clean (non greasy) and dry air.
Rob.
-
James Hurr
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:03 am
- Location: Australia
Humidity
'I take the precaution of only refilling cylinders indoors, in a warm/low humidity environment.'
You need to be careful, you are thinking of relative humidity rather than absolute humidity.
Your warm dry air probably has more water in it than cold dry air.
You need to be careful, you are thinking of relative humidity rather than absolute humidity.
Your warm dry air probably has more water in it than cold dry air.
pump
Hi,
Have been using a Hill handpump for some time
http://www.pilkguns.com/hillpump.htm
Use the pump in my house with central heating and hav'nt had any problems. My issue with tanks is that you have to get them tested periodically, which to me is a bit of a hassle.
The pumping is fairly easy, altough it would wear my grandmother out quite quickly.
Cheers,
Bob
Have been using a Hill handpump for some time
http://www.pilkguns.com/hillpump.htm
Use the pump in my house with central heating and hav'nt had any problems. My issue with tanks is that you have to get them tested periodically, which to me is a bit of a hassle.
The pumping is fairly easy, altough it would wear my grandmother out quite quickly.
Cheers,
Bob
If getting your tank inspected once a year is a hassle, you need to find another place to get it inspected and filled. It takes about 5 minutes.
Lone Star Scuba is where I get mine filled and inspected, and they are fast and courteous. They know exactly what I am doing and dont have any problem.
It also helps that I bought two of their used tanks. They sell them at the end of every season for $1/cubic foot. Great deal!
I will never pump!
Good luck!
Lone Star Scuba is where I get mine filled and inspected, and they are fast and courteous. They know exactly what I am doing and dont have any problem.
It also helps that I bought two of their used tanks. They sell them at the end of every season for $1/cubic foot. Great deal!
I will never pump!
Good luck!
-
Nicole Hamilton
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:17 pm
- Location: Redmond, Washington, USA
- Contact:
I'm with those who prefer the SCUBA tank. I also have hand pump, which does have the advantage that it's easier to take with you, but I think it's a lot more work than I want to put into it. As others have commented, I would not want to have to pump at a match because it'd be a while before I could shoot well again. (Instead, remember to top off your cylinder before you leave and, even better, consider getting a second cylinder if you don't already have one.) Also, the point about moisture is a really good one: SCUBA air is dry air. No point filling your airgun with a lot of water!
I like my pump
I have a Gehmann hand pump. It has had no problem since I bought it, except that on a trip I once broke the pressure gage. The gage is a screw on device that can be purchased at industrial supply stores, however the pump dealer gave me a new one.
My pump is easier to pump, per stroke, then some others I have seen. There might or might not be a trade off between stroke force and number of strokes required. Even if so, I prefer the lighter force.
There is a moisture trap at the bottom of the pump. It depends on your air gun brand, but my Morini cylinder valve is still active during refill. The first few strokes quickly fill the pump interior space (including the moisture trap) to match the remaining pressure of the cylinder, then additional pumps raise the pressure much more slowly as the cylinder is being filled.
Once the cylinder is full, I open the moisture release valve, and the pressure in the pump blows a couple of drops of water out into the air. That is all the moisture control that I have ever needed. Once the pressure is released, I remove the air cylinder from the pump and it is ready for attachment to my gun.
I usually take my spare air cylinder to a match. One time another competitor with a similar gun needed my spare cylinder because the match didn't supply air, but I have never needed it.
Which is the main point of using the pump. One cylinder of air, in any air gun I know of (rifle or pistol), is plenty for an entire match -- IF it is fully charged before the match. The pump always charges the cylinder to full pressure, with confirmation from the cylinder pressure gage that the pump's gage is correct, so I have no concern about air supply on match day. With a scuba tank, air pressure is always declining. Since the AG pressure regulator drops out at about half pressure, at 3/4 max pressure you are down to about half the maximum number of shots in your air cylinder which is likely not enough for the full match with sighters.
Those who point out that manually pumping up an air RIFLE takes more work, are doubtless correct. I shoot air pistol, and would prefer not to manually pump up my cylinder just before a match but otherwise it is easy enough.
My pump is easier to pump, per stroke, then some others I have seen. There might or might not be a trade off between stroke force and number of strokes required. Even if so, I prefer the lighter force.
There is a moisture trap at the bottom of the pump. It depends on your air gun brand, but my Morini cylinder valve is still active during refill. The first few strokes quickly fill the pump interior space (including the moisture trap) to match the remaining pressure of the cylinder, then additional pumps raise the pressure much more slowly as the cylinder is being filled.
Once the cylinder is full, I open the moisture release valve, and the pressure in the pump blows a couple of drops of water out into the air. That is all the moisture control that I have ever needed. Once the pressure is released, I remove the air cylinder from the pump and it is ready for attachment to my gun.
I usually take my spare air cylinder to a match. One time another competitor with a similar gun needed my spare cylinder because the match didn't supply air, but I have never needed it.
Which is the main point of using the pump. One cylinder of air, in any air gun I know of (rifle or pistol), is plenty for an entire match -- IF it is fully charged before the match. The pump always charges the cylinder to full pressure, with confirmation from the cylinder pressure gage that the pump's gage is correct, so I have no concern about air supply on match day. With a scuba tank, air pressure is always declining. Since the AG pressure regulator drops out at about half pressure, at 3/4 max pressure you are down to about half the maximum number of shots in your air cylinder which is likely not enough for the full match with sighters.
Those who point out that manually pumping up an air RIFLE takes more work, are doubtless correct. I shoot air pistol, and would prefer not to manually pump up my cylinder just before a match but otherwise it is easy enough.
-
Pradeep5
If you are buying a new tank, you should be able to get the dive shop to supply it with a DIN fitting already installed, therefore avoiding having to buy a K->DIN adaptor. When I first bought my Morini, I purchased a steel SCUBA tank to suit. Filled it via the local fire station, cost about AUS$7.
Had the guy fill it up to 260 Bar (max working pressure stamped on cyclinder). Static test pressure was 420 Bar I believe. Worked fine after I discovered the difference between a 200 Bar and 300 Bar DIN fitting, and had half the nut from my Morini adapter turned off so it would actually seal. Gave me an insane number of shots before needing to swap pistol cylinders. Only later did I find out that in fact 300 Bar is only safe for the fixed cylinder Morini, and that removable cylinder versions should only be filled to 200 Bar (shame they didn't change anything on the pressure guage). No damage done tho.
Recent times I bought a Hill pump from Pilkguns, works great and can sit in the boot, just in case it's needed.
If you have both a pump and a tank, I would suggest using the pump to fill it until it gets hard, then top it off with the tank. The last few pumps to get the decent pressure are to me much harder than the easy first dozen or so.
Had the guy fill it up to 260 Bar (max working pressure stamped on cyclinder). Static test pressure was 420 Bar I believe. Worked fine after I discovered the difference between a 200 Bar and 300 Bar DIN fitting, and had half the nut from my Morini adapter turned off so it would actually seal. Gave me an insane number of shots before needing to swap pistol cylinders. Only later did I find out that in fact 300 Bar is only safe for the fixed cylinder Morini, and that removable cylinder versions should only be filled to 200 Bar (shame they didn't change anything on the pressure guage). No damage done tho.
Recent times I bought a Hill pump from Pilkguns, works great and can sit in the boot, just in case it's needed.
If you have both a pump and a tank, I would suggest using the pump to fill it until it gets hard, then top it off with the tank. The last few pumps to get the decent pressure are to me much harder than the easy first dozen or so.