TargetTalk

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Russ, why don't you try to answer some of the other questions about shooting technique in some of the other threads on this forum

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I have never believed in those diagrams that are published that show what a shooter is doing wrong according to shot placement. I am assuming this practice may be used in this recent offer of coaching.

Those diagrams only make assumptions as to what is being done incorrectly. They also do not analyze if two things are being done incorrectly. Very rarely does a shooter do only one thing wrong in their shot process. Finally, the practice of looking at targets does not reinforce the importance of paying attention to the technique during excecution. The only way to know what needs improvement it to be aware of what you are doing through the shot process. Looking at the shot placement for answers will lead to a shooter becoming very concerned about the target and what the shot placement will be. Bad news.

I could look at someone's targets and just say some things they need to do to make their technique better and it would seem like I analyzed their targets. Poof, magic!

I have also never believed in coaching by looking at targets. In my junior years I did have a coach that did that. I think the biggest gain from that was to track progress since I did not have coach at home. He did make suggestions based on the targets and I did learn some things. However, I learned the most when I came out to a camp and he physically coached me.

The best way to learn is to have a coach or other shooter with more skill help.

I have been in the Denver area for a while now and no one has approached me to help coach. I had also planned on going back home this year to help with a junior camp and it was cancelled. I can only assume because of lack of interest. I know there are plenty of shooters out there willing to learn, but on top of a low amount of skilled teachers, the effort to use those teachers is not where it needs to be to improve the number of quality athletes. I am sure other areas of the country have shooters with a lot of skill and the reasource is not being used.

I guess until then the inferior coaching through long distance target analysis will be the best option...

Mike Douglass

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Cold Hard Facts and a Question (not intended to offend; just laying out an unpleasant reality that applies to everyone and anyone)


1) There are some (more than you might think) on this forum who aren't automatically overly impressed with your self-reported scores

2) Even if you were a current multiple world record holder in a discipline, we wouldn't necessarily automatically assume that everything *you* had to offer was valuable (now your *coach(es)*, on the other hand, might have some automatic credibility)

3) When you don't offer details about *any* element of technique, just boasts and promises, that tends to make some people a little skeptical

4) The "proof of the pudding," at least in a forum such as this, is usually backed up with a) the presentation of an actual technique or solution, and not "vaporware;" b) the logic of the argument and marshalling of facts and specific observations; c) advice that can easily be tried and tested, relevant to the issue raised; and d) an admission or premise of hte one one giving advice that while their opinion or idea might have worked for them, it might also not work for someone else.

Now while none of us are "perfect posters" with regard to a)-d) above, at least I honestly believe most folks here are humble enough to recognize that discourse is better served by trying to recognize the basic ideas of "burden of proof" and "one size does not fit all."

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5) Are you sure your name didn't used to be "Chet Skinner?"

Steve Swartz

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How about posting some content?

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Bickering, kibitzing, discussing, criticizing.....all tends to look like marking territory. May I humbly suggest that you both either PM, email or phone and chat a bit. What I gather we all share in this forum is sincere enjoyment in the challenge of the sport and the chance to partake in the camraderie. And....if our inner compasses don't all point toward improvement, I would be surprised. Plinkers generally gravitate to other venues. There is much information here from the technical aspects of comparing equipment ( ;-) to telling others what has worked personally. I personally find Steve to be very knowledgeable and detailed in his discourse on how he shoots. I find Russ to have unbounded enthusiasm and love for this sport with a desire to expand it. Both are extremely valuable assets for Target Talk and for the shooting in general. But I have to say the exchanges are starting to have readers take sides when none should be needed. IMHO CraigE

Why not just both go to the same match and ..........

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Russ, I really have to say I agree with Steve at this point. I love your enthusiam about the Olympic sports here, and don't want you to lose that. BUT.......... There is an expression about " He's all thunder and no rain" or "He's all hat and no cattle" . You keeping alleging that you are a great source of knowledge, whether from your personal scores, or your coaching expereince , but so far we have not seen any evidence in one of your postings. So far, the only real advice I have seen from you is the one at the start of this thread, which really was'nt using your expereince at all. You say that no mental coaching is not necessary below 540, and that may or may not be true, but assuming it is, there are LOTS of physical questions on this board, why not answer some of them. They are a number of very talented and knowledgeable posters on this forum, some who have been Olympians, and they share and answer the question posed by new shooters. It would do you much good if you did the same, instead of the constant mini-commercials

The way I see it, there are at least three approaches to the "Russ and Steve show" and other situations like it.

First, which is the most labor intensive, is to turn the forum into a formally moderated one. And yes, I'll volunteer to be one of the moderators.

Second, no one is forcing us to read either Russ or Steve. No one is forcing us to respond to either Russ or Steve. USE THE SCROLL BAR!

Third, live and let live. Try not to offend others, and try not to be offended too easily.

I vote for the third.

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Russ wrote:580 were good for 10 years ago! Today it mast be 590-595

I don't think you would find anyone arguing that 595 would be good. In fact, if shot at a major match (several every year) it would break Sergei Pyzhianov's 16 year old record of 593.

Russ wrote:I do only dry fire 15 minutes a day 4- 5 day in a week for two month to make score 577 in May 2005, after my last match in 1993

That shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Learned skills are easily retained. The big problem with passing time is the loss of muscle tone and memory, easily regained by dry firing. I now only pick a gun up once every 4-6 weeks. I still know how to look at the sights and release the trigger but my arm won't keep the pistol still enough to let me score much above 540 (at best).

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