TargetTalk

Ladies and Gents:

The mind starts to wander during a long training session . . . some more than others . . . and today an odd thought that had been buried in my subconscious kinda bubbled up.

We talk about "focusing" on the front sight instead of the target during shot release. Most folks would probably initially think that we are talking about "physical focus;" ie sight picture. Upon reflection, however, we would probably also suggest that "mentally focusing" on hte front sight is also important; perhaps more so.

O.K., so for some bizarre reason I have been struggling with "trusting the process" in terms of focusing (mentally and physically) on the front sight and sight alignment; generally ignoring aim; and allowing my subconscious to break the shots.

I understand intellectually that this is the way to go- however, I have been finding my mind sneaking in consideration for the quality of hold and the position of the front sight relative to the target.

The net effect is that now I trying to juggle three objects in space (front sight, rear sight, target) as I try to achieve that perfect sight picture before releasing the shot. Apparently, tens are no longer good enough for my inflated ego; every shot must be a deep ten or something.

Anyhow- we have discussed the role of "Physical vs. Mental Follow Through" here before . . . is it worth a discussion of "Physical vs. Mental Focus?"

How are mental and physical focus different- and do we or should we care?

Steve Swartz

Steve
I have the opinion that physically seeing the front sight is equally important to the attention you give it. By seeing it, I mean seeing it in it's physical detail sitting there in the center of the notch and floating on the distant target. Years ago (I'm 56) my eagle eyes could see it perfectly. Especially so if the front sight was illuminated. Blackening the sight was not necessary if there was plenty of light on the sight to see it's every detail. In retrospect, I think blackening the sight is not always advisable.

When every detail is visable, attention to the sight is easier for me. Physical focus enhances mental focus. But in both cases the conscious can ruin the whole thing.

My best shooting comes when the sight is illuminated better than when a black silhouette. When I dryfire in my room, the room light enhances the sight giving me a better picture to attend to. It is not just because the dryfiring is against a blank wall. I would always prefer to see the gun blue color and the machining marks on the sight. That way my conscious and my subconscious know I am seeing the sight.

Steve,

I feel that mental focus is the more important of the two. Your visual focus can be on the front sight while your mind is jumping from one thing to another. Your mind only focuses on one thing at a time and if it is focused on the front sight you are in the zone. It indicates total commitment to sights as being the important indicator of where the shot will go.
We spend our whole lives learning that the goal or target is the important thing. Starting when we are little we learn that to hit something you have to look at it. "Keep your eye on the ball" says the batting coach. How many times have you heard that and other examples of the same thing. The first thing a baby does is learn to focus his eyes and from then on he looks at whatever he wants.
Shooting is an un-natural sport in that you need to break lifelong habit patterns before you can do the things you need to do to shoot well. Focus your mind on the front sight and the sight suddenly grows larger, becomes clearer and the shot just happens. Your heart fills with joy and you think "Now I've got it". The problem is that the habits are deep seated and always sitting there just below the surface, waiting to rise again.
You must brutally force those habits and instincts out of your mind and replay the mind focusing on the front sight. We have all learned to shoot many times. Then we relax and it all falls apart as our instincts take over and we start thinking about the target again.
If you can control your mind you can achieve your goals.

Doug in Virginia

Very interesting comments . . . consider 4 separate conditions (a 2x2 matrix if you will):

1. Physical focus and Mental focus strong on front sight
2. Physical weak, Mental strong
3. Physical strong, Mental weak
4. Physical weak, Mental weak

Ok, we can pretty much agree that 1. is ideal and 4. is, well, that's why the target is so big with so many rings.

In considering situations 2. and 3., do we believe that one (physical vs. mental) is a prerequisite for the other; are they related in some way; or are they truly independent?

And do the same issues apply to the (secondary?) criteria of Alignment?

Steve,
When you intensly focus your attention on the front sight your eye will be compelled to focus on the sight as well. It's only when your mind is idling or wandering that your vision is free to move. It's normal for your vision to jump from one thing to another. It will do that unless we are controlling the point of focus. We draw our physical focus to a point with our mind.
With enough practice we may be able to idle our mind and shoot tens with muscle memory. I dont believe you can do that 60 times in a row. After a few shots on automatic something pops into your mind and... you just shot a nine.
The best way to guard against stray thoughts is by concentrating with all your energy on the front sight and maintaining the front sight in alignment with the rear sight. I'm sure you have experienced the situation where you are really focused with your mind and eye on the sights and the pistol seems to go off outside your aiming area but the shot is still a ten. I'm also sure that you have had your eye focused on the sights while your mind was idling and..... damn, there's an eight. I didn't see that coming. Shots like that are the ones that really shake your confidence.

I'd be interested in your experience with focusing your mind on the sights and if you can keep your mind focused without your vision on the sight as well.

Doug in Virginia

I have been shooting a longbow for about 7 years. Long bow shooters have been telling me that they are shooting instictively for all of those years. Instictively meaning that they just look at and focus on the target whatever that may be . paper, stump, game animal. I was thinking to my self yeah right.

I mostly shoot my bow at a known distance format for those of you intrested it is called a royal round as layed out by the SCA. In this format, I used what is called Gap shooting. This is antithesis of instinctive shooting. At first I did very well using the end of my arrow as an aim point and focusing on various parts of the target for aim points at different ranges. after awhile, say in the last couple of years or so I have found that I just don't have to aim with the end of my arrow any more and that when I try I become very inconsistant and scatter myarrows everywhere at all ranges that I typically shoot,( 20,30, 40 yards). My FOCUS has changed to just looking at the target and letting my brain and peripheral vision make the shot happen. Now, shooting a long tbow that I made with shooting arrows that I also make, usually I can hit a 9 inch diameter target 6 of 6 times out to about 45 yards. Just shooting instinctively. Focus with the long bow is on the target with both eyes open,

Now after that long intro on longbow focus you might ask how it affects my AP shooting. From this kind of training I reach a state of focus that I think the word in japanese is Satori, or at least my recollection of its meaning. In the past when I first started shooting my pistol I would shoot a bunch of pellets and get to about 30 or 40 shots before I really felt Focused. and started to put holes in the ten and nine ring. I have recently started a program of dry firing for as long as it takes to get to a point (yeah ,yeah I am getting to it) where I can just focus on the front sight and let that shot happen when it needs to REf. the previous post where you think that was a bad shot only to see that it was dead center in the X. With the converse also happening as a form break with a pellet in the 8 or worse.

A shooter at my last match told me that it was just a lack of concentration when that happens and just try to recover from it and keep shooting. The state of focus that I am trying to acheive is like when I am drawing or carving or anything that is a creative kind of thing. It is a focus so deep that I lose track of time and everything else. Just me and the front sight. I noticed that it was the same for me and shooting after hearing it described by a darwing book that I read called Drawing on the Right Side of Your Brain. Sorry the author escapes me at the moment. This kind of focus is what most people that create things report they feel when they are in the groove and making something new. This is the kind of focus that I am looking for when I shoot my AP. It is the same thing I feel when I shoot my longbow. I call it Satori.

Pump gun load pellet drop pistol to table raise pistol line up focus front blade equal light all around three sides of blade while breatheing out natural pause check 1st stage for strait pull let it go if its ready.


focus shoot strait

From what I've heard from some absolute top level shoters they keep their focus somewhere in between the front sight and the target - thats the best compromize in their view.

But that does not work for me at all. I have to keep focus on the front sight only. I guess that with lots of experience you will develop your own standard on where to keep focus.

/axel

Steve,

In case you don't already know about it, there has been a good deal of university sports research done on the topic of "quiet eye," closely related to your original question. Just Google "quiet eye" and you will find references to this research conducted at, among other places, the U. of Calgary and a Florida school. None related to pistol shooting, as far as I know, but done on closely analogous sports activities such as golf putting and basketball free throw shooting.

HTH,
FredB

Steve,

Here's my tuppence worth. Although (as you know) I am an ankle-bitter when it comes to AP, I lived in Japan for 3 years where I studied Kendo and, more relevant for this discussion, Kyudo (Japanese archery). the post above about longbow is interesting because whenever the same problem arises (shooting well, repeatably) the same solution arises (focus).

In Kyudo a beginer (and, in fact, all the way up to expert shooters) HAS to, ABSOLUTELY MUST, focus (mentally) on the object of importance (unlike AP, this is the target in archery). I had long discussions with good Kyudosha about what they did and, as always, it seems some mental process that was impossible to articulate (otherwise we wouldn't need these forums right?) was responsible. Stuff like "be the arrow" and "see a line from the arrow to the target" were the most detailed descriptions. However, when you found your "mental framework" you knew you had (apparently).
That was "Kensho" (Satori is a higher form of enlightenment - but lets not argue about that). the important thing here - and its true - is that you can only achieve this ability through personal experience. I remember someone on a post here (maybe even you?) telling me (or another beginer) to shoot 10,000 shots, then another 10,000 shots.

In summary - the Zen route is through the mental - the physical follows (OK, OK - thats too simple, but in a nutshell its not bad).

SO whilst a good shooter should be doing strong mental and strong physical focus, I would venture that he/she has relatively few problems with the strong mental. By contrast a beginer might be better focussing on the strong mental focus.

BS or what?

Just a short comment from a 3P- rifle shooter:
Axel states that he has heard/read "top level shoters they keep their focus somewhere in between the front sight and the target".
I experience the same many times firing my best shots. In the split second before the shot is released i experiance a total relaxation of the body and with that a relaxation of the aiming-eye; the eye relaxes and focus is somewhere between the front sight and the target. Although I always expect a flier, the shot is in the center of the target.
Is this the moment of 'the shot releasing itself' (be the arrow...) ???

Albert
(The Netherlands)

Reading the posts and reflecting, I realize that when the "zone" happens for me I just know the 10. I am often surprised by the instant of the shot. I simply don't know (yet) how I manage to achieve that state. If I could only isolate the conditions/mind set that enables it....... I have been shooting AP for about 3 years (this time around) and am beginning to have the zone visit me a wee bit more frequently. Perhaps I shall exist long enough for it to dominiate. Hope so. FWIW CraigE

The zone for me is when I feel relaxed in my shooting and trust in my subconscious. It more or less feels like when you focus off of something like your computer screen (at least to me). When you fully trust your subconscious you will feel more at ease in your shooting and the results will be better. That said it is not just something you can do and needs practice. Your subconscious needs to learn just like your conscious mind, it is however less descrimatory and will equally learn good and bad. The trick is to keep the bad at bay and only feed it good thoughts and processes.

The 'answer' is to keep practising and develop your subconscious skills. With proper practice you will get in the zone more often and more easily.

Rob.

A few thoughts or perhaps questions:

Is it possible to stay "focused" for the entire match or training session? Or do we want to learn to "turn on" the correct focus as we pick the pistol up off the bench. I remember a few years ago watching John Bickar sitting down and reading a book between strings of a shoot off in a rapid fire match. What does your mind do between shoots of a slow fire match like AP or FP?

Is a term "like paying attention to the front sight" perhaps what we mean by "focus" to distingiush between the physical act of focusing the lens of the eye and the mental act?

Do you use a relaxed attention (or focus) on the front sight versus a hard foucs?

My intensity level cycles in and out of my shot plan.

As the last 200ms approaches, my self-hypnosis/autosuggestion is designed to increase intensity level and narrow focus. Immediately after shot release it switches to "relax" mode and cycles down into a distracted trough until the cycle repeats.

If I can't achieve my intensity level after a couple of tries, I enter a deeper trough by sitting down/reading/etc.

I used to be able to maintain 10 shot strings (barely) and now can spool up for 30 shots or more. As long as the peak of the cycle is no more than 3 seconds or so (Put The F'ing Gun Down!) and the "shake it off" relaxation phase is at least 15 seconds or so I can continue the cycles for a long time at high quality peak intensity.

I would like to think my last 2 years worth of mental training has been paying off, and I am not just kidding myself . . .

Steve Swartz

I agree completely with the previous post that 10m air pistol is very similar to Japanese archery of Kyudo.

I picked up 10m air pistol quite recently. I applied what I learned in Kyudo to 10m. I spent much time in "ritualistic" mechanical movement of stance, grip, breathing, arm raise, alignment, trigger, follow through. Most of the time in training, I would shoot only 5 pellets. Most of the time are spent ritualistically "feeling" the pistol. Very few shots are fired. My goal is not to shoot, but to have a solid mental/ physical ritual. Mindful of what I am doing.

Someone told me I am a quick learner, able to shoot 558 in 5 months. Somehow the score is not my goal. I just want to be a good shooter, mindful of what I am doing. Just like in Kyudo, I paid attention to the detail rituals, mindful of my senses. Pellet will take care of itself hitting the target.

Steve, I worked on this problem from a slightly different perspective. I spent many months training my sub concious to recognize perfectly alligned sights. I kept a picture of perfectly alligned sights , with the target grey anf fuzzy centered for my selected aiming area in my pistol box, in my wallet, on the wall of my bedroom and glued on the screen of my TV. I believe I susceeded in teaching my sub concious what it was that I wanted to see when the pistol was raised to the firing position. I used the steadily increasing method of trigger control and started the finger moving before the pistol was lowered into the aiming area. I also believe the subconcious image of what I wanted to see helped in concentrating on perfecting sight allignment. The problem with any thing sub concious is that you must not be aware of what is taking place there or you are not using it correctly. So , how do you determine sucessful sub concious routines in your shooting sequence ? Good Shooting Bill Horton

Interesting to se some old threads come back from the dead, zombie-like, to haunt us!

Checking my log book, from that period, a couple of observations:

1. My mental training involved at the time a "focus card" (picture of perfectly aligned sights, with fuzzy target and somewhat less fuzzy rear sights) and a "self-hypnosis" tape for relaxation and concentration.

2. The post was made just prior to my Great Slide Into Mediocrity. At the time, I was training 15-20 hrs per week (up to 35 hrs per week pre-match) and shooting 575-585 MAP and 540-550 FP regularly.

3. The training was generally 30% general physical therapy (arm/shoulder stability) and aerobics, 50% dry fire (mostly blank card and under varying environmentsal conditions), 10% live fire, and 10% mental/autosuggestion with menatl and live fire increasing gradually as big matches approached.

4. That summer I ruptured a tendon in my right elbow . . .

steve swartz

Steve,
If it's any consolation - just think of all those young, star-to-be, football players who never made it because of injury. Luck is always a component of great success in sports.

Best wishes for the coming year
Fred

guests wrote:Interesting to se some old threads come back from the dead, zombie-like, to haunt us!

Checking my log book, from that period, a couple of observations:

.. . . .

4. That summer I ruptured a tendon in my right elbow . . .

steve swartz

Was that in '06?

Long term injury (going back to 2002) that started really affecting performance (with significant tearing) in 2005.

I "Self Treated" for a couple of years (2004-2007) until the tendon completely separated from bone and fluid started really building up in the joint capsule.

[What was fascinating, in retrospect, was how I kept a gradual diminution in capability at bay by better training methods . . . this masked the underlying problem so well that I was able to rationalize mediocre performance vis a vis potential performance for so long. People will put up with pretty much anything if it happens to them gradually enough!]

And yes, I had good advice from knowledgeable people telling me "Dude, having to pop 1200 mg of Ibuprofen just to make it through an AP match just ain't right!"

There has *got* to be a lesson in here somewhere for the new shooters.

Steve Swartz