Hello All,
Now I am looking at some different options. I have searched the archives and most of what i find is old. What are the differences between the Hammerli AP40 and the Steyr LP10? I see a lot on here about the LP10 but not much on the AP40. I did talk to Larry Carter and he speaks highly about both but says he likes the AP40 better.
What do you all think. Because I am thinking about getting one or the other. Although the Steyr is a bit more money, is it worth it? I have ruled out the Morni because I don't really care about the electronic trigger. Mainly I am going to use it right now for Bullseye training and perhaps shoot some AP matches at Benning.
Thanks!
High End AP Options???
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There is a lot about the Steyr seen here. Very little about the Hammerli. Personally, I bought a new Pardini K2 last fall and am very pleased with it. You don't seem to see much about them here either.
If for no other reason, I would take my Hammerli over my Steyr because of ease of loading. The loading ramp with a bolt to push the pellet forward on the Hammerli is far easier than trying to get the pellet into the chamber on the Steyr, particularly if you have big fingers. This is probably why I still like my old Feinwerkbau Model 2's too.
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Guest
there was a discussion a few weeks ago, maybe in December that discussed the high end APs and the counts of guns used by top competitors around the world. Seems over 90% were shooting either Steyr or Mornini. For Bullsey , Pilk Guns sells a Steyr gun witha 1911 style grip, its fun shooting it semi aouto
Pardini also seats pellet
Pull up the chamber cover - which also cocks the pistol - place a pellet in the trough and close the cover. This seats the pellet perfectly every time.
That was the final deciding factor of my purchasing the Pardini K2 over the Steyr LP10. The alternative would have been to purchase the lesser Steyr - the LP2 - which does seat the pellet, but lacks the ported barrel of the K2. Dollars were never a consideration - but, the Pardini did cost less than the LP10.
At the time or purchase, I felt the K2 was the most air pistol for the dollar, with the most features for the dollar, and would always be able to out shoot me. The grips fit me well, the pistol's balance suited me, and I trust a mechanical trigger mechanism. I still feel them same.
For those asking, I am merely stating my personal opinion. I am not involved in and airgun sales.
That was the final deciding factor of my purchasing the Pardini K2 over the Steyr LP10. The alternative would have been to purchase the lesser Steyr - the LP2 - which does seat the pellet, but lacks the ported barrel of the K2. Dollars were never a consideration - but, the Pardini did cost less than the LP10.
At the time or purchase, I felt the K2 was the most air pistol for the dollar, with the most features for the dollar, and would always be able to out shoot me. The grips fit me well, the pistol's balance suited me, and I trust a mechanical trigger mechanism. I still feel them same.
For those asking, I am merely stating my personal opinion. I am not involved in and airgun sales.
Pardini K2S
I have a weakness for AP's, and think that they are the heighth of the gunmaker's art. I own the LP10, AP40, K2S, and, for that matter, SAM K11 & K15, too. I recently traded away my Morini to a pal who needed an AP.
The LP10 is a beautiful pistol, and its quality cannot be denied. The AP40 is also beautiful, and feels of quality. The Pardini does not look as good, BUT, they are easy to shoot well. The current edition, with the integral muzzle break, has a ported barrel, and advertises some form of recoil reduction. The grip doesn't look as good as the LP10's, but feels surprisingly good.
IMHO: They're all excellent guns, and you won't be sorry with any of them, but you'd have a spare $200 or more to go along with the Pardini. It's my choice when I shoot a match.
Good luck.
The LP10 is a beautiful pistol, and its quality cannot be denied. The AP40 is also beautiful, and feels of quality. The Pardini does not look as good, BUT, they are easy to shoot well. The current edition, with the integral muzzle break, has a ported barrel, and advertises some form of recoil reduction. The grip doesn't look as good as the LP10's, but feels surprisingly good.
IMHO: They're all excellent guns, and you won't be sorry with any of them, but you'd have a spare $200 or more to go along with the Pardini. It's my choice when I shoot a match.
Good luck.
There is no problem loading the steyr, sure it's different to some of the others but it's a piece of cake. On the plus side you can't load in two pellets at the same time by accident whereas you can with the others mentioned. This isn't a problem 99.99% of the time but I've seen it done in a competition before. I would choose the Steyr (well I did) but as always it has to be what gun suits you and feels best to you.PaulB wrote:If for no other reason, I would take my Hammerli over my Steyr because of ease of loading. The loading ramp with a bolt to push the pellet forward on the Hammerli is far easier than trying to get the pellet into the chamber on the Steyr, particularly if you have big fingers. This is probably why I still like my old Feinwerkbau Model 2's too.
Rob.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Aluminium is standard, steel is available as an option.NCIT wrote:Is it true that the AP40 has an aluminium barrel? If so, how does it stand up to AP's with steel barrels?
See the Hammerli AP40 Data Sheet
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funMor
High end APs
Hello, NCIT.
First, there is obviously some misunderstanding here. The Morinis are available in two versions: one with a mech, the other with an electro trigger. I have tried both and definitely recommend the former. There is also short versions available of both.
The "loading a double pellet culprit". Yes, I have seen it done, also by experienced competitors. But the couble pellet it seldom fired at the target, because an increased resistance is felt at loading the second pellet behind the first.
The "doble pellet" is usually fired at an empty pellet trap. REMEMBER TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE RANGE OFFICER BEFORE DOING THAT. Otherwise you could be disqualified from the competition.
But sometimes shit happends, and a god score is ruined. The "double pellet" will usually print about 1/2 inch apart, down into the 5 and 6 ring at 10 meters.
Accidental double loading is almost eliminated by some of the Steyr models.
So if you are easily distracted, Steyr is your gun.
The Morini, in my subjective opinion, is "easy to shot well", as is the new FWB P40. I own, and have tried many top end APs, and some turnes out to shot tens more willingly than others, even if both have grips that fit my hand well.
It has to do with dwell time, lock time, trigger characteristics etc. The accuracy of all top end APs are just fenomenal, regardless of brand.
First, there is obviously some misunderstanding here. The Morinis are available in two versions: one with a mech, the other with an electro trigger. I have tried both and definitely recommend the former. There is also short versions available of both.
The "loading a double pellet culprit". Yes, I have seen it done, also by experienced competitors. But the couble pellet it seldom fired at the target, because an increased resistance is felt at loading the second pellet behind the first.
The "doble pellet" is usually fired at an empty pellet trap. REMEMBER TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE RANGE OFFICER BEFORE DOING THAT. Otherwise you could be disqualified from the competition.
But sometimes shit happends, and a god score is ruined. The "double pellet" will usually print about 1/2 inch apart, down into the 5 and 6 ring at 10 meters.
Accidental double loading is almost eliminated by some of the Steyr models.
So if you are easily distracted, Steyr is your gun.
The Morini, in my subjective opinion, is "easy to shot well", as is the new FWB P40. I own, and have tried many top end APs, and some turnes out to shot tens more willingly than others, even if both have grips that fit my hand well.
It has to do with dwell time, lock time, trigger characteristics etc. The accuracy of all top end APs are just fenomenal, regardless of brand.
As long as you're in contact with Larry Carter, ask him about the Benelli Kite. I've been shooting one for a couple of months and have found almost nothing to criticize (pm me if you want LOTS of boring details). You might also ask about the Pardini K2s - doesn't have all the latest gadgets and gewgaws, just a great trigger and absolutely bulletproof construction.
When I talked to Larry Carter yesterday he said that if he were buying a new one he would by the Hammerli AP40 hands down. He did not mention the Benelli or the Pardini. Are they guns of lesser quality or why do you think? I will be in contact with him when he gets back from the SHOT Show next week. No one has really given me any hard info yet about the Hammerli.
Like I said, I know about the steyr, you can read all you want about it. I talked to one of my friends in the USMC yesterday and he said he would by the Morini Electric, that is what he shoots and he is a top shooter. But what concerns me about it is who is going to work on it when it needs repair because I hear shipping it to Italy can be a pain in the Butt!
Oh I am hopelessly confused I guess. As for the Pardini, I cannot find much info on it on the web either. Any clues?
Furthermore, on most of these websites there is no pricing schedule. The only one I have found pricing for is the Steyr and the Morini.
Finally, is there any advantage to the steel barrel as opposed to the aluminium???
Thanks
Like I said, I know about the steyr, you can read all you want about it. I talked to one of my friends in the USMC yesterday and he said he would by the Morini Electric, that is what he shoots and he is a top shooter. But what concerns me about it is who is going to work on it when it needs repair because I hear shipping it to Italy can be a pain in the Butt!
Oh I am hopelessly confused I guess. As for the Pardini, I cannot find much info on it on the web either. Any clues?
Furthermore, on most of these websites there is no pricing schedule. The only one I have found pricing for is the Steyr and the Morini.
Finally, is there any advantage to the steel barrel as opposed to the aluminium???
Thanks
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Bob LeDoux
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:08 pm
- Location: Jefferson, OR (near Salem)
Shoot Before You Buy
All the pistols mentioned are top quality. They are all reliable, with good service life.
The most important factor, before spending more than $1000, is to find the gun that is most comfortable to you. Don't buy a gun before you have a chance to shoot it.
If necessary work out a deal with the appropriate dealer to try before you buy. Pilkington is known for working with potential buyers.
Twenty seconds in your hands is worth a thousand expert opinions.
The most important factor, before spending more than $1000, is to find the gun that is most comfortable to you. Don't buy a gun before you have a chance to shoot it.
If necessary work out a deal with the appropriate dealer to try before you buy. Pilkington is known for working with potential buyers.
Twenty seconds in your hands is worth a thousand expert opinions.
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David O.
I think we all understand your dilemna about purchasing an AP running over 1000 dollars. I researched and asked around and finally decided to buy the LP10, and I have no regrets. I bought mine brand new from Pilkington after they provided me some good advice on all brands of APs. I was a bit disturbed on the remarks regarding loading a pellet into the LP10. Its a piece of cake, the pellet falls right into the barrel opening. Try loading a pellet into the IZH. The only problem I have had with the LP10 is finding enough time to shoot it on a daily basis. Steyr LP10 for me was a great buy. It is also beautiful to look at. I also had considered the Morini without the electronic trigger.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
From what I have heard on this side of the Atlantic, Pilkingtons (who host this board) are MORE than capable of any work that might be required on a Morini Electronic. I think you can forget any worries on that subject.NCIT wrote:I talked to one of my friends in the USMC yesterday and he said he would by the Morini Electric, that is what he shoots and he is a top shooter. But what concerns me about it is who is going to work on it when it needs repair because I hear shipping it to Italy can be a pain in the Butt!
My opinion, so take it for what it's worth...NCIT wrote:When I talked to Larry Carter yesterday he said that if he were buying a new one he would by the Hammerli AP40 hands down. He did not mention the Benelli or the Pardini. Are they guns of lesser quality or why do you think? I will be in contact with him when he gets back from the SHOT Show next week. No one has really given me any hard info yet about the Hammerli.
Like I said, I know about the steyr, you can read all you want about it. I talked to one of my friends in the USMC yesterday and he said he would by the Morini Electric, that is what he shoots and he is a top shooter. But what concerns me about it is who is going to work on it when it needs repair because I hear shipping it to Italy can be a pain in the Butt!
Oh I am hopelessly confused I guess. As for the Pardini, I cannot find much info on it on the web either. Any clues?
Furthermore, on most of these websites there is no pricing schedule. The only one I have found pricing for is the Steyr and the Morini.
Finally, is there any advantage to the steel barrel as opposed to the aluminium???
Thanks
In the order that I would purchase them.
Steyr LP-10 and Morini 162 EI - World Class. Chosen by more top shooters than any others. Proven design and reliability.
Steyr LP-2 - top-level engineering, shares design with the LP-10, but without the recoil absorber, ported barrel, and shroud. Still very capable.
Benelli Kite - Decent gun. Slightly more front-heavy than the Steyr. Bigger gun overall. Used to win the European Championship last year.
FWB P-40 - Top quality, but not used that much on the World Cup circuit. FWB s have a reputation as being difficult to shoot well - not as "forgiving" as some of the others.
Pardini K2 - Used to win gold in '96. Reliable. Front heavy.
Hammerli AP-40 - Not one of my favorites. Light weight. Not used on the World Cup circuit for whatever reason. Not in the same league as a Steyr or Morini.
Jay V
IL
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dhurt
I shot a pardini K-60 for many years and I did ok with it. My top match score was 569. Yearning to break the 570 mark, I thought a new pistol might be the ticket. I borrowed a steyr LP 10 from a good shooter and friend, but I had a hard time keeping them in the black! The friend also went back to his old pistol finding the steyr difficult to shoot! Go figure. Then I tried a morini 162 EI, NIRVANA. It is an inner 10 magnet!
The point is, try as many as you can. They all shoot great but they all feel different and one will feel best for you. Best regards.
The point is, try as many as you can. They all shoot great but they all feel different and one will feel best for you. Best regards.
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Mark Briggs
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:35 am
- Location: The Frigid North - Ottawa, Canada
I'll throw in a couple of points for conjecture...
Service is an important factor in purchasing any pistol. I've had bad luck with my Morini's in terms of initial quality. But my local dealer and the Morini factory have provided support which goes far beyond the norm and, in my opinion, sets the service standard to which the rest of the industry should aspire.
On the flip side of the coin I've also been involved in dealings with Hammerli. They flatly denied there was a problem, and would not help. Thank goodness my local dealer (the same fellow who sells Morini) bent over backwards to help. He sent countless letters, faxes and e-mails to Hammerli and eventually convinced them to fix the problem. In this regard Hammerli's factory support was nothing short of shameful.
Steyr factory support has been very good, for the little that I've had to call upon it. The Steyr pistols seem to have almost perfect quality from the factory (note I wrote 'almost'!).
When it comes down to which pistil is best, that's a very personal decision because only you can decide which pistol is best for YOU. But you should also give very careful consideration to the quality of support you will get from your dealer and from the manufacturer. In this respect I would raise the caution flag when it comes to Hammerli. My experience is that - the experience of only one person, but it's been enough to ensure I'll not purchase another Hammerli product.
Service is an important factor in purchasing any pistol. I've had bad luck with my Morini's in terms of initial quality. But my local dealer and the Morini factory have provided support which goes far beyond the norm and, in my opinion, sets the service standard to which the rest of the industry should aspire.
On the flip side of the coin I've also been involved in dealings with Hammerli. They flatly denied there was a problem, and would not help. Thank goodness my local dealer (the same fellow who sells Morini) bent over backwards to help. He sent countless letters, faxes and e-mails to Hammerli and eventually convinced them to fix the problem. In this regard Hammerli's factory support was nothing short of shameful.
Steyr factory support has been very good, for the little that I've had to call upon it. The Steyr pistols seem to have almost perfect quality from the factory (note I wrote 'almost'!).
When it comes down to which pistil is best, that's a very personal decision because only you can decide which pistol is best for YOU. But you should also give very careful consideration to the quality of support you will get from your dealer and from the manufacturer. In this respect I would raise the caution flag when it comes to Hammerli. My experience is that - the experience of only one person, but it's been enough to ensure I'll not purchase another Hammerli product.
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funMor
Best pick of APs?
Jay V.
Yes, that must be your personal opinion, indeed.
Especially about the brand new FWB AP 40.
Jay V wrote:
The FWB are not generally less forgiving than some other brands. I have used all FWB models since the late 60s. I simply choose the Morini because the mech. Morini trigger is the very best, in my opinion.[/quote]
Yes, that must be your personal opinion, indeed.
Especially about the brand new FWB AP 40.
Jay V wrote:
Jay V, are you confused quite a bit here? The first FWB P 40s left the factory just short time ago. So of course they have not shown up at the larger intern. comps. yet. Your comments are noncense, caused by lack of knowledge :-).FWB P-40 - Top quality, but not used that much on the World Cup circuit. FWB s have a reputation as being difficult to shoot well - not as "forgiving" as some of the others.
The FWB are not generally less forgiving than some other brands. I have used all FWB models since the late 60s. I simply choose the Morini because the mech. Morini trigger is the very best, in my opinion.[/quote]
Re: Best pick of APs?
[/quote]funMor wrote:Jay V.
Yes, that must be your personal opinion, indeed.
Especially about the brand new FWB AP 40.
Jay V wrote:Jay V, are you confused quite a bit here? The first FWB P 40s left the factory just short time ago. So of course they have not shown up at the larger intern. comps. yet. Your comments are noncense, caused by lack of knowledge :-).FWB P-40 - Top quality, but not used that much on the World Cup circuit. FWB s have a reputation as being difficult to shoot well - not as "forgiving" as some of the others.
The FWB are not generally less forgiving than some other brands. I have used all FWB models since the late 60s. I simply choose the Morini because the mech. Morini trigger is the very best, in my opinion.
funMor,
Well, I did say it was my OPINION didn't I. You certainly have some strong opinions yourself.
It doesn't look to me (considering my "lack of knowledge") that FWB reinvented the wheel with the P-40.
The P-34 had a reputation as being difficult to shoot well. Not just my "noncence" - read the interview with Neustrev in the interview section on the Pilkguns site.
I must be confused - I always thought the Morini electronic trigger was the best...
Jay V