TargetTalk

David Levene wrote:With all due respects for the ingenuity Ed, it certainly wouldn't be training for the 10 second or even the 20 second series of Standard Pistol.

Having to force the pistol off-aim is not really the same as having to get it back on aim from the recoil.

Having to move the non-shooting hand to pull the string between shots is not actually realistic training.

It all must have been interesting to watch though.

I am of the firm opinion that the only effective way to train the 5-shot series in either 10 or 20 seconds, other than by using visualisation, is with live ammunition (lots of it).

No problem with these type comments, David. I take no offense.

However, tugging on the string does move the gun off center and the recovery is comparable to live firing.

I will not argue that live shooting is preferred for .22, but I use this method for my .45 as well, and I think there are advantages to sustained dry fire training; one of which, being the ability to do it off the range.


As to John's description of single shots per target, you must have it set for single shots. I have found that I must set up for ten shots per target and two or more series to keep the original series from disappearing as I recover after the tenth shot. I do have ten hits per target, except for the occasional skip.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Trigger control ! I now beleive that once you have the basics down Trigger Control is # 1 most important thing to breaking 570. My hold is always good (once I warm up a little) scatt is showing me my sight alinement is good. My only bad shoots happen(go bad) when im finishing the shoot (pulling the trigger and following through) Even when my follow through sucks (still 99%of the time) Im still able to shot tens(lots of them) But ever so often when the shot is releaseing my round ends up totally out of my hold area. The scatt shows an immediate sharp movement out of the area which sometimes I find is just my NPofA being off. (I move alot while I shoot and dont always get my feet set the same) When I purchased my scatt from Zurek he told me that was what he was noticeing (trigger control) was costing him some points. Now I see exactly what he was talking about, 19 out of 20 of my bad shots I beleive r due to poor trigger contol. Now maybe some of the people that know what they r talking about can remind me (or us ,im sure others r doing this) how to work on this. If i recall right working on sight alinement by dry firing against a blank wall will also help trigger control. My proper training is about as good as my follow through but maybe if I hear it another 100 times it will sink in! Remember I really dont know what im talking about but am just passing on what I have experienced and what other I respect have told me..................David

david alaways wrote:Trigger control ! I now beleive that once you have the basics down Trigger Control is # 1 most important thing to breaking 570...David

Although I have always preached and believed that trigger control IS the number one fundamental, I believe that attitude is truly the next step. Once you understand that the trigger has to be uninterrupted and smooth, regardless of picture, and what the true meaning of allowing the hold to be undisturbed by conscious effort is, you must move to an attitude that allows both to unfold according to your shot plan.

The trainers can help you discover the way, but you must take that learning and incorporate the necessary attitude to make use of it in your matches. Fliers are a manifestation of doubt in your ability to perform perfectly. Remove that doubt and reach higher.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Last nights Rika session was an eye opener for me. 6/10 shots inside 9.5, those 6 holds inside the 9 ring. But then it goes to pot - a 6 or a 7 and some wideish 8's. Some I could not account for, but the wild ones (6's and 7's) were due to a 'bouncing' hold. Looking at my trace I see that in many cases, every 3 seconds or so (almost regular as clockwork) I have a sudden big movement in my hold. I don't think it is a twitch as such (or is it?) but those wild shots are a trigger release when the 'bounce' occurs.

Since the 'bounce' doesn't happen every time can I rule out physiology? ie is it more likely a lack of conentration/control over the shot?

higginsdj wrote:Last nights Rika session was an eye opener for me. 6/10 shots inside 9.5, those 6 holds inside the 9 ring. But then it goes to pot - a 6 or a 7 and some wideish 8's. Some I could not account for, but the wild ones (6's and 7's) were due to a 'bouncing' hold. Looking at my trace I see that in many cases, every 3 seconds or so (almost regular as clockwork) I have a sudden big movement in my hold. I don't think it is a twitch as such (or is it?) but those wild shots are a trigger release when the 'bounce' occurs.

Since the 'bounce' doesn't happen every time can I rule out physiology? ie is it more likely a lack of conentration/control over the shot?

What happens when you dry fire a series of shots - 20 or 30. Does the twitch still ocurr or dissappear ?

Rob.

I only dry fire with the Rika..... I'm not sure I would call it a twitch. It's not that instantaneous (ie the movement and recovery takes about 0.5 to 0.75 seconds.) and sometimes I 'bounce' on the recovery. If you look at the time series plots you can see what I mean. (These were all shot in the same string of 10 shots).

Each plot represents one shot and records where the pistol was pointed in time series (green vertical line represents the triggering)

Looks like you have an admirably stable hold in the 2-4 second zone . . . that begins to decay quickly as you approach 6 seconds . . .

Are these three charts truly representative of your holding performance?

Steve

Yes. I'd like them all to be like b10, my average is like b8 and my 'off shots' are like b6.

Cheers

David