TargetTalk

FredB wrote:

j-team wrote: Was there a FAS 605? If so what was it?

I seem to remember a rumor that FAS were planning a free pistol at the same time as they developed the 606. So quite possibly number 605 was reserved for that unmade dream. I wish they had done it - their designs are so elegant that it would have been great.

You're right FredB, the 605 was going to be a Free Pistol. It was going to share the same trigger group as the 606 with, from memory, the ommission of just one spring.

Muffo wrote:

Rover wrote:"something better might be around"

SSP?

Na I have intentions of competing at a high level so thats out

That's what all the "hoorah" has been about; folks thinking they need a PCP to be competitive.

(Of course, if you're joshing me...ya got me!)

Rover wrote:

Muffo wrote:

Rover wrote:"something better might be around"

SSP?

Na I have intentions of competing at a high level so thats out

That's what all the "hoorah" has been about; folks thinking they need a PCP to be competitive.

(Of course, if you're joshing me...ya got me!)

A little bit of both

This is how I see it.
Pros for an ssp.
You save a few dollars in one of the cheapest sports there is

Cons for an ssp
They are unforgiving. they have slow pellet speeds meaning the pellet spends longer in the barrel there fore is effected by mistakes more
They introduce more steps into ones shooting routine making for a longer process that is harder to do exactly the same every time.
most of them require you to regrip the pistol for every shot due to cocking
most of them require you to break your position after every shot
they require more physical effort to shoot
nobody at a high level comp uses one so if you have a problem you cant just put your grip on someone elses pistol and shot the comp

Pros for an ssp
They are better at everything on the con list for the ssp

Cons for the ssp
higher initial purchase price
you have to buy a scuba tank or a pump
you have to send the cylindars back to get re sertified every 10 years. probably 2 maybe 3 times in your shooting carrier

Muffo wrote:This is how I see it.

Cons for an ssp
They are unforgiving. they have slow pellet speeds meaning the pellet spends longer in the barrel there fore is effected by mistakes more
They introduce more steps into ones shooting routine making for a longer process that is harder to do exactly the same every time.
most of them require you to regrip the pistol for every shot due to cocking
most of them require you to break your position after every shot
they require more physical effort to shoot...

Yes, they aren't as dumbed-down and easy to shoot as what you are used to.

Have you ever wondered how on earth pre-PCP shooters ever managed to do so well with their unforgiving and difficult SSP's [and springers]? They must have possessed more skill than you have.

slofyr wrote:

Muffo wrote:This is how I see it.

Cons for an ssp
They are unforgiving. they have slow pellet speeds meaning the pellet spends longer in the barrel there fore is effected by mistakes more
They introduce more steps into ones shooting routine making for a longer process that is harder to do exactly the same every time.
most of them require you to regrip the pistol for every shot due to cocking
most of them require you to break your position after every shot
they require more physical effort to shoot...

Yes, they aren't as dumbed-down and easy to shoot as what you are used to.

Have you ever wondered how on earth pre-PCP shooters ever managed to do so well with their unforgiving and difficult SSP's [and springers]? They must have possessed more skill than you have.

No I havent really wondered at all. when High level competitors actually did use pcps it was a 40 shot match for a start. also the scores werent as high. this may just be because air pistol hadnt been around very long. My father shot most of his carrier using a feinwerk 65. My mother used a feinwerk model 2. Il give you 1 gues which pistol my father shot all his best score with and it didnt involve cranking an arm every shot.

I bet you would be hard pushed to find many people in the world who are shooting Master grade with a pcp.

But by all means continue to shoot your pistol that is not dumbed down and not easy to shoot. Its not what you shoot on a good shot that counts its what you shoot on a bad shot. every mediocre shooter can shoot x ring 10s when they shoot a good shot.

Muffo wrote:nobody at a high level comp uses one…

I always wondered do those high level shooters pay for their own pistols?

poogi wrote:

Muffo wrote:nobody at a high level comp uses one…

I always wondered do those high level shooters pay for their own pistols?

If you are asking whether those at the very top are given them by the manufacturers then the answer is very few.

Many of the others will have the guns bought for them from grants or funding from their National Associations.

Most international level shooters will be able to get a discount on new guns just by being at the matches where the manufacturers have trade stands.

poogi wrote:

Muffo wrote:nobody at a high level comp uses one…

I always wondered do those high level shooters pay for their own pistols?

quiet a few of them do. Other wise you would see an even number of all tge top brands there. The perfect example is people shooting toz 35 free pistols. I dont think toz is paying them

Guys... guys... Come on, nobody needs a fancy imported and overpriced FAS 604 when Nygord could shoot a Daisy 717 (less than half the price of the FAS!) as well as his main pistol (FWB65).
When you shoot at least a 575 in a major competition with one, you should consider "upgrading" to a K58 or a FWB10x/65.

http://michaeljedelman.com/PDFs2Post/daisy717.pdf

I really don't figure out how has this gone so far, being about a purely personal decision.

Abebe Bikila was an Ethiopian runner who won gold in the 1960 OG's marathon, running BAREFOOTED. Does that mean that we should all sell (or dump) our sport sneakers?

By the way, are all the critics of PCP pistols' usefullness driving the car to which they are "entitled" by their abilities, or do they cruise around in the ones they like (and can afford)?

A person shooting what he considers the best he can purchase will indeed have an extra peace of mind, that may result useful or not in gaining points, but will assuredly be useful in gaining confidence.

When I first saw the subject line, I thought, “Oh boy, I love buying new guns,” but upon reading it, I had no idea what Rover was talking about with such vitriol. Besides my trusty Sheridan rat-killer, I’m not an air gun enthusiast but I appreciate the technology and craftsmanship evident in any quality air guns. I had to google the difference between SSP and PCP (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/th ... mp%3B+PCP-).

I still don’t get Rover’s point; it’s like arguing the difference shooting bullseye with revolvers versus semiautos; latter definitely better but I’ve seen revolver purists shoot decent scores in standard bullseye. How can you criticize personal preference?

I divorced a Walther GSP because it hiccupped in a regional match. I lost ‘trust’ in the consistency of that firearm. Relative to PCP air guns, fewer moving parts seems like the best formula for consistency and therefore accuracy over time. dipnet

" How can you criticize personal preference?"

I'm not and never have. What I'm criticizing is the high cost of going to PCP without any real gain in performance, quality, maintainability, and reliability, just because someone slurped the Kool-Ade, therefore believing they are not competitive without one.

Be that as it may. I shot a FAS 604 with a red dot yesterday, so can give a slightly flawed review. Unfortunately, I did not have my regular glasses with me, so the dot was a misshapen flarey blob.

The first thing I noticed was the recoil, which moved the dot less than 1/6 of the black diameter. The next thing was cocking it, since so many complain of their aches, pains, and failing strength when using an SSP. Cocking was easily done by partially closing the gun, and then with the front and grip resting on the bench close the gun with an open hand. There is NO strain on the shooting arm. NICE grips and trigger.

Unfortunately, I was not impressed with the accuracy, but I could not see well and the bench support was not the best, though I kept them all in a large hole (10 shots). If you have fat fingers, you'll never get this gun loaded.

You definitely need light pellets and good quality targets due to the low power of this gun. The crap American targets just tore. Quality Euro targets performed decently.

Nice, yes. Competitive (?), not like a Pardini K58, Walther, or FWB 100 series (can't speak to an IZH).

Can you point out anyone in master grade with a ssp

Yes, myself (I made Master with a FWB 90) and Jay Shi (US Shooting Team, Pardini K58), but neither of us is using one at the moment.

BTW: A Master average in the US is 6 points higher (558+) than AA (552+).

That's the point of all this: you don't NEED a PCP to shoot high scores. If you want one, fine, but never think you MUST have it to shoot well.

Muffo wrote:Can you point out anyone in master grade with a ssp

Do some research in your own country and you will see all the high scores that Phil Adams shot with his trusty Air Match SSP. I think it would be fair to say Phil was a master grade shooter!

And he no longer shoots one. I was asking if people know anyone that is in master grade shooting a ssp. There is no one in my country

Rover wrote:" How can you criticize personal preference?"

I'm not and never have. What I'm criticizing is the high cost of going to PCP without any real gain in performance, quality, maintainability, and reliability, just because someone slurped the Kool-Ade, therefore believing they are not competitive without one.

Be that as it may. I shot a FAS 604 with a red dot yesterday, so can give a slightly flawed review. Unfortunately, I did not have my regular glasses with me, so the dot was a misshapen flarey blob.

The first thing I noticed was the recoil, which moved the dot less than 1/6 of the black diameter. The next thing was cocking it, since so many complain of their aches, pains, and failing strength when using an SSP. Cocking was easily done by partially closing the gun, and then with the front and grip resting on the bench close the gun with an open hand. There is NO strain on the shooting arm. NICE grips and trigger.

Unfortunately, I was not impressed with the accuracy, but I could not see well and the bench support was not the best, though I kept them all in a large hole (10 shots). If you have fat fingers, you'll never get this gun loaded.

You definitely need light pellets and good quality targets due to the low power of this gun. The crap American targets just tore. Quality Euro targets performed decently.

Nice, yes. Competitive (?), not like a Pardini K58, Walther, or FWB 100 series (can't speak to an IZH).

Rover, I am surprised you even entertained using this gun as it has a more modern, unnecessary, more expensive than the original open sights, on it!!

Rover wrote:Yes, myself (I made Master with a FWB 90) and Jay Shi (US Shooting Team, Pardini K58), but neither of us is using one at the moment.

BTW: A Master average in the US is 6 points higher (558+) than AA (552+).

That's the point of all this: you don't NEED a PCP to shoot high scores. If you want one, fine, but never think you MUST have it to shoot well.

Rover, just curious, what are you using now in competition? I thought I read somewhere that you sipped the cool aide, and tried out the dark side at one point???

Rover wrote:Yes, myself (I made Master with a FWB 90) and Jay Shi (US Shooting Team, Pardini K58), but neither of us is using one at the moment.

BTW: A Master average in the US is 6 points higher (558+) than AA (552+).

That's the point of all this: you don't NEED a PCP to shoot high scores. If you want one, fine, but never think you MUST have it to shoot well.

Um ok I didn't realise America had a different grading system. I thought it was the same in all countries. As in master grade is 575 and has to be shot in comp and must be shot at least once every 12 months to hold it. 558 is b grade