TargetTalk

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:30 pm**

Non-sporting colors???? What are these colors I wonder?

No rules against Lycra or Spandex yet thank God.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:33 pm**

Hi

The one item of clothing that I commonly wear while shooting is Khaki pants. Unless you count old style safaris, Khaki isn't known as a sporting color. Quite a few of the Bianchi cup competitors wore it the last time I drove through there (2005?). Khaki pants and a polo shirt with their sponsor's names on it. Khaki looks better than blue jeans, doesn't show oil stains as badly, and is easy enough to find.

Later

Mike
Wichita KS

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:42 pm**

Marcus wrote:
One question. Can someone over 18 and under 21 drink whilst out of the US during an international style competition? The code mentions "during the event" so I assume a hot toddy after getting back to the hotel would be OK?
The answer is definitely no! Regardless of the drinking age in the country where the match is occuring, no one under 21 on a trip funded by USA Shooting is allowed to drink. The legal drinking age in the US is 21. Even those over 21 and especially coaches are not allowed to drink while wearing team identifying clothing.

Almost every "rule" in the code of conduct for USA Shooting athletes (and coaches) is there to protect the federation and to keep from embarassing sponsors. Imagine a photo of a top athlete wearing a skimpy top or short shorts with a sponsors product in the background or foreground. Or an athlete changing on the range down to his or her underwear. We have all probably seen it. It is not unusual in Europe. These compromising situations have the potential to damage the reputation of the athlete and the federation. I wouldn't say we are being prudish, just protecting our relationships with our sponsors.

Marcus

Thanks for the response.

It seems the no drinking restriction is limited to times when the US uniform is being worn, official events etc, and obviously during the times when the range is in operation. Certainly makes sense.

How does the 21+ laws of the US transfer to other countries though? Surely you are bound by the laws of the country you are in? I'm just trying to picture a bunch of US shooters at a bar (in plain clothes) in Europe. The unlucky few between 18-21 are shuffled off to bed along with the <18 year olds? At least before everyone is tucked in by 11PM?

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:59 pm**

It's really not about the law its about the athlete agreement and thats what you sign so that's what you have to live by, even if it is stricter than local laws.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:06 pm**

mikeschroeder wrote:Hi

The one item of clothing that I commonly wear while shooting is Khaki pants. Unless you count old style safaris, Khaki isn't known as a sporting color. Quite a few of the Bianchi cup competitors wore it the last time I drove through there (2005?). Khaki pants and a polo shirt with their sponsor's names on it. Khaki looks better than blue jeans, doesn't show oil stains as badly, and is easy enough to find.

Later

Mike
Wichita KS

What they are looking for is for the shooter to look like athletes rather than some guy that wondered in off the street. I don't necessarily like it, but I can understand it and can see they have to draw a line somewhere and this is where they have chosen to draw it.

I really can see someone coming up with pants, that meet the needs of a pistol shooter and meet the existing rules. And they will be made in gaudy sporting colours, just like the rifle clothing.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:12 pm**

Richard H wrote:What they are looking for is for the shooter to look like athletes rather than some guy that wondered in off the street. I don't necessarily like it, but I can understand it and can see they have to draw a line somewhere and this is where they have chosen to draw it.

Yes, it is somewhat understandable. If the drafters had had even a modicum of judgement, it would be even more understandable. *sigh*

Alexander

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:19 pm**

And one last question.

Marijuana appears to be banned "in-competition" for shooting. Is there a competition "window" during the year when testing is performed? Or is it just during actual competitions. I'm trying to figure out how it works for those that have to report their whereabouts etc. Do they get a break too?

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:22 pm**

How does the 21+ laws of the US transfer to other countries though? Surely you are bound by the laws of the country you are in? I'm just trying to picture a bunch of US shooters at a bar (in plain clothes) in Europe. The unlucky few between 18-21 are shuffled off to bed along with the <18 year olds? At least before everyone is tucked in by 11PM?

That's right.

We are certainly bound by the laws of the country where we are. That does not mean we will allow our athletes to do something that they cannot do at home. 21 is greater than 18. Our federation makes the rules and the athletes must agree to them or there is no trip. It is as simple as that.

With travel costs a huge portion of a training/competition trip to Europe it makes little sense to send young people all that way to test out the local brews when they should be focussed on learning how to perform on an international stage. So many of you in Europe have probably not shot in the US. Our ranges, for the most part, are not to international standards. We use multiple bull targets while European ranges are single bull and electronic targets are much more common. The trips are designed for the athletes to gain experience, not as a reward or to party.

Marcus

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:23 pm**

Alexander wrote:
Yes, it is somewhat understandable. If the drafters had had even a modicum of judgement, it would be even more understandable. *sigh*

Alexander

Yes not the first poorly written rule from the ISSF and I doubt it will be the last.

Maybe I'll get my mother to fire up the sewing machine and create some new pistol pant. The tops could be like a heavy cotton twill short with colourful lycra legs. They would have belt loops and a system of velcro that would allow placement of your non shooting hand.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:42 pm**

Marcus wrote:
How does the 21+ laws of the US transfer to other countries though? Surely you are bound by the laws of the country you are in? I'm just trying to picture a bunch of US shooters at a bar (in plain clothes) in Europe. The unlucky few between 18-21 are shuffled off to bed along with the <18 year olds? At least before everyone is tucked in by 11PM?
That's right.

We are certainly bound by the laws of the country where we are. That does not mean we will allow our athletes to do something that they cannot do at home. 21 is greater than 18. Our federation makes the rules and the athletes must agree to them or there is no trip. It is as simple as that.

With travel costs a huge portion of a training/competition trip to Europe it makes little sense to send young people all that way to test out the local brews when they should be focussed on learning how to perform on an international stage. So many of you in Europe have probably not shot in the US. Our ranges, for the most part, are not to international standards. We use multiple bull targets while European ranges are single bull and electronic targets are much more common. The trips are designed for the athletes to gain experience, not as a reward or to party.

Marcus

Understood. Those that are paying the bills are perfectly entitled to dictate behavior. Was just thinking in terms of a recreational drinker like myself who by routine might have a brew or two with dinner. I'll save the crawling on my belly like a lizard for after the gold.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:48 pm**

Richard H wrote:They would have belt loops and a system of velcro

Am I the only one who thinks - the temptation of your wording is irresistible - darkrooms and slings now...? *Sigh*
;-)

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:52 pm**

I can foresee more volunteers to man equipment control ;)

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:57 pm**

Alexander wrote:
Richard H wrote:They would have belt loops and a system of velcro
Am I the only one who thinks - the temptation of your wording is irresistible - darkrooms and slings now...? *Sigh*
;-)

Some nice leather or latex trousers for my German friends, they just need to be in sporting colours.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:17 pm**

Kilts. We'll wear kilts.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:24 pm**

Thank heaven that pistol shooters don't shoot prone!

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:57 pm**

Mike M. wrote:Kilts. We'll wear kilts.

As long as they aren't like the Catholic school girls kilts that go to school around me because I'm sure they would fall afoul of the too short rule.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:43 pm**

Ihave only one rule. ONLY HITS COUNT!!!! Good Shooting Bill Horton

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:48 pm**

2650 Plus wrote:Ihave only one rule. ONLY HITS COUNT!!!! Good Shooting Bill Horton

Well that's fine and good, but unfortunately THEY make the rules and THEY say that if you aren't dressed right YOUR HITS WONT COUNT!!!

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:14 pm**

If you are willing to surrender our sport to idiots making stupid rules you deserve the hassel you are getting. Go to work on your national shooting bodies and get this crap stopped. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:32 pm**

Sounds good, having talked to athletes from all over the world it seems like few if any have any faith in their NGB's (NSO's). I think the problem stems from two things, these bodies aren't necessarily elected by athletes in every country. Even in countries that do, it's not just competitive athletes that do the voting, so there are other interests that are represented.

Problem two is that competitive athletes want to compete not run an organization, so they tend to be run by people that might not have the competitors interest at heart.

I know we've cleaned house a few times in ours, and the entropy has it back to a dysfunctional organization within a couple of years.

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