Worst gun?

[David Levene]

May I ask moderator to erase my former post, due to the quote errors?

That's one of the advantages of signing in. You can correct or delete your own posts.

[Randy]

Although many folks are happy with theirs, my Baikal IZH-35M is far and away the most unreliable gun I have. I have 4 magazines and still it fails to feed at least once every 30 or so shots regardless which mag is in it. It is unfortunate because it is accurate and well balanced. To put it in perspective, I have 3 Houston manufactured High Standards that I have tweaked less than the IZH-35M and the High Standards now all work without a hitch but nothing seems to cure the Baikal. Because of this, I only use the pistol for practice because I think more about it functioning than trying to make a good shot.

[higginsdj]

So based on my experience I would have to say the worst gun is a FAS and the next worse is a Morini.....

Your experience is based on observation ov a mere three guns. The poll includes 34 entries....
May I state your base for judgement is limited?

No - more than 3 guns were actually used at the competition - I only commented on 3 guns.......

As I already stated (and you quoted) I am aware of my lack of experience and that was the point of my email - do all who entered the poll have actual experience with every pistol in the poll? If not - then how valid/useful is the poll result? (ie you have stated that my opinion is invlid due to lack of experience - how many others who voted in the poll suffer the same issue?)

Cheers

David

[Richard H]

F. Heinrich I suggest you need a refresher in statistics this is a poll and unless all those that voted tried all of those pistol its based on their perception of the pistol they voted for. The results are not based on 34 pistol they are based on 34 votes for pistol of which there is no knowing if those that voted even owned or even used that particular pistol

It not even a valid statistical poll, when polling one would ask questions such as what pistol do you own, what other pistols have you owned, How would you rate pistol xxx in reliability. That is how scientific polls are done. the poll would also be based on a statistically significant number of owners of a particular pistol.

[ColinC]

Could it be that the bad experiences of some shooters with regards to a particular brand handgun has more to do with the amount of tinkering they do with the mechanics rather than the quality of the gun?

I have owned 4 different brands of .22, two purchased new and two purchased second/third/fourth/?? hand. I have never experienced any problems with them apart from a Unique DES69U which used to choke on anything Winchester. I switched to Eley, Fiocchi, & Federal ammo and never had a misfire.

The thing about all my handguns is that I don't tinker and if they are lucky they get an annual clean. In our club it seems the fellows with pistols which continually have problems, no matter what the brand, are those people who are tinkerers. who like to continually adjust sear engagement, trigger weight and just pull them apart because they know how. I think they should buy a Meccano set and have some real fun instead of creating problems for themselves by tinkering with their pistols.

[Randy]

[quote]The thing about all my handguns is that I don't tinker and if they are lucky they get an annual clean. In our club it seems the fellows with pistols which continually have problems, no matter what the brand, are those people who are tinkerers. who like to continually adjust sear engagement, trigger weight and just pull them apart because they know how. I think they should buy a Meccano set and have some real fun instead of creating problems for themselves by tinkering with their pistols.[quote]

I understand what you are saying. However, it could be a "which came first, the chicken or egg?" situation. I "tinker" with the gun that doesn't function properly. If it did work right, I wouldn't work on it. The last example of this I had was my Walther Free Pistol. It broke during a match last month. I contacted a number of repair shops, including Earl's-the US Walther service and Scott Pilkington - to see if they could fix it. I recieved a very polite reply from all but no one wanted to try to fix it. I then was in a position where I kept it as a very well made paper weight or I "tinker" with it to try to repair it. Fortunately, I am old enough that when I was in the Marine Corps the electronics I worked on is very similar to what is in the Walther. I found the problem, repaired it, and posted what I found on this site to maybe help someone else out in the same situation. All of this was out of need, not any desire to return to my erector set days. Believe me, nothing would please me more than never again to have to take the Walther apart. I too am happy just to shoot it, clean it and put it away.

[Richard H]

I understand what you are saying. However, it could be a "which came first, the chicken or egg?" situation. I "tinker" with the gun that doesn't function properly. If it did work right, I wouldn't work on it. The last example of this I had was my Walther Free Pistol. It broke during a match last month. I contacted a number of repair shops, including Earl's-the US Walther service and Scott Pilkington - to see if they could fix it. I recieved a very polite reply from all but no one wanted to try to fix it. I then was in a position where I kept it as a very well made paper weight or I "tinker" with it to try to repair it. Fortunately, I am old enough that when I was in the Marine Corps the electronics I worked on is very similar to what is in the Walther. I found the problem, repaired it, and posted what I found on this site to maybe help someone else out in the same situation. All of this was out of need, not any desire to return to my erector set days. Believe me, nothing would please me more than never again to have to take the Walther apart. I too am happy just to shoot it, clean it and put it away.

Fixing something that's actually broke and not working, is not the tinkering that he's talking about. As he stated these people take thing apart just because they can (at least they think they can).

Now if you took it apart just to see what was inside or to mess with it because you thought you could make the xyz better than it was in the factory, and in the next match it failed, that would because you tinkered with it.

[Tycho]

At least we tinkerers know how to take things apart and put them back together - not like some 208 shooters who are completely flabbergasted that their pistol would stop shooting after 20 years of no problems - and no cleaning or service... ;-) And anyway, we PAID for all those screws and bolts, so use 'em!

[Richard H]

At least we tinkerers know how to take things apart and put them back together - not like some 208 shooters who are completely flabbergasted that their pistol would stop shooting after 20 years of no problems - and no cleaning or service... ;-) And anyway, we PAID for all those screws and bolts, so use 'em!

All tinkerers know how to take stuff apart, it seems only a few know how to put it back together properly, that is where the problem lies ;)

[Muffo]

Why isnt that guy eating his boots? I think thats the reall question. From what i can tell the main problem with the match gun is people trying to remove malfunctions without removing the top. Also How can it be the worst ever with the scores it produses. I would buy one if i shot anything else except precision events. As for the ruger mark11. I think it can be classed as a target .22 and in its time it wasnt so bad. It lent itsself well to modification. My father got into masters grade with it. As for the worst gun i have no idea cos i havent shot them all

[Tom Amlie]

The Walther Baikal was discontinued some time ago.

Hence, the MG2 may be worst gun AND worst buy (of brand new guns.)

Not much people find any favor in the MG2, I read.

I've got about 5K rounds through my MG2 (SN 302x)with one (1) misfeed (easily cleared).

Although the internet is great for sharing information, one of the downsides is that old stories keep recirculating as new, and people with no first-hand knowledge perpetuate the stories.

[Plumbo]

From what i can tell the main problem with the match gun is people trying to remove malfunctions without removing the top.

Remove the "top" of a MG2? At every jam? Holly J....You are not alowed that much repair time during matches.

Also How can it be the worst ever with the scores it produses.

The MG2 procuses scores? Which scores? "Google" the web, and yah will find no good scores produced by the MG2 in any major tournament.

The Ruger? Its a plinker. A pretty reliable one, but it is still a plinker.

[Richard H]

Well if you can't find it with Google it doesn't exist.

[Brian James]

I can assure, I've seen the MG2 used to produce some excellent results at major competitions - if you can find the results from the 2007 Universiade in Bangkok, there were a few in use - one french shotoer and a Thai shotoer were using them with excellent results

I've had my fair share of challenges with my MG2, but with superb support I have a great pistol now!

Brian

[julioalperi]

Another great (french) shooter who knows how to win a competition with her MG2 is Brigitte Roy.

[Brina]

"Julioalperi": can you please add the number of points for the two victories in France?

[julioalperi]

Sorry Brina, I don´t have that information. I´ll try to find out. I posted that information as it was given to me.I´ve just found this in french but can be understood.

Thibaut Sauvage´s Palmarès :
2008 :
Champion du Monde universitaire individuel et par équipes en pistolet vitesse 25m
2007 :
Champion de France au pistolet standard 25m
2006 :
Vice champion du Monde juniors au pistolet 25m
Vice champion du Monde juniors par équipes au pistolet 25m et au pistolet standard
3e des championnats du Monde juniors au pistolet standard
3e des championnats du Monde juniors par équipes au pistolet vitesse 25m
Champion de France juniors au pistolet standard, au pistolet 25m et au pistolet vitesse 25m
Champion de France juniors au pistolet standard 10m

[Muffo]

From what i can tell the main problem with the match gun is people trying to remove malfunctions without removing the top.

Remove the "top" of a MG2? At every jam? Holly J....You are not alowed that much repair time during matches.

Also How can it be the worst ever with the scores it produses.

The MG2 procuses scores? Which scores? "Google" the web, and yah will find no good scores produced by the MG2 in any major tournament.

The Ruger? Its a plinker. A pretty reliable one, but it is still a plinker.

Well your wrong on both accounts there is no time limit on fixing a malfunction. It managed to shoot high enought scores to qualify people for the olympics. There have been guns made that would never be able to do that. And as for the ruger. in standard form its not much chop but in its day when it was modified it was much more than a plinker. A bit like a Margolin

[JulianY]

The MG2 procuses scores? Which scores? "Google" the web, and yah will find no good scores produced by the MG2 in any major tournament.

In fact there are a couple used by ISSF world cup shooters for rapid fire! I'd have to re watch the video to give you their names, but their scores are no slouches.

Julian

[Brina]

Dear Mr. "julioaprina": are the achieved results of the competitions you are listing not avilable?
More of us are interested to learn about the scores made by the MG2.

We asked you above to bring the results. We are a bit curious why you do not list the scores. (If you do not bring the scores, someone may start to wonder about the listed "victories" being fakes...).