TargetTalk

Lima wrote:Actually, on this topic, is it possible to survive with pistol shooting as the sole occupation? Perhaps in certain countries in Europe?

Possibly in IPSC. Also, with some US-based SASS shooters.

As to ISSF disciplines, only for the couple of years that you can be a state-sponsored sports soldier on time contracts; same as in the USA in their marksmanship units / teams.

Alexander

You can shoot shotgun for money and make a living.

Lima wrote:.........In any case it seems that this is restricted to elite level global competitions where hopefully the related national body can provide trackies and perhaps even a blazer for glory moments.

That is if your country has money for uniforms. I know for a fact, not all teams have uniforms supplied. After paying out of pocket for flights, lodging, meals, etc, I don't think it should be expected of the athlete to pony up for whatever it is the bureaucrats dream up.

R.M. is right.

I shoot with the U.S. International Muzzle-Loading Team, and we are dirt poor. About the only things that get paid for are entry fees. EVERYTHING else comes out of our pockets.

Part of the issue, I suspect, is that you have officials who think that we can win points with "pretty"....not realizing that we just aren't a photogenic sport. No spandex, no hardbodies.

Me? I shoot in Dockers-like pants. I can see wearing dress uniform for an award ceremony, but for shooting? Don't joke.

David Levene wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should all wear spandex!

Maybe not.

Hi

In the interests of full disclosure, I'm 48 and have a gut. I shoot American Conventional Pistol (Marksman). If everyone who looked like I do (pasty white, hairy, with a gut) wore speedos or other spandex (like a professional athlete) in "sporting colors" like bright red, lime green, and royal blue, the ISSF MIGHT be inclined to change their minds. Heck, even wearing a track suit in lime green 3 sizes too small would be a start.

Really, the best way to get someone to change the rules is to follow them to the letter (not the intent), to the letter..

Later

Mike
Wichita KS

It seems to me that the ISSF always had some vague rules about dress. A few years at the USAS Nationals at Fort Benning, GA, USA, I was asked to wear a shirt with sleeves rather than the sleeveless shirt I was wearing. One young woman said she was asked to do the same, she was wearing sleeveless shirt as well. We were told these were the interpretations of ISSF rules.

If the shooting events at Olympics and other International competitions are significant and important; is it not reasonable to think of how the participates appear in the photographs? The individual participants must be team members to compete, is asking them to wear the team uniform that much of a stretch?

The reason that track suits are allowed is that track suits are the issued uniform of some national teams.

When it comes to local matches, I try to follow the rules in a fashion that encourages participation. I am not going to ask a shooter to leave the match because they have the wrong blinders. Nor do I check trigger weights before the match. But I try to help by bringing my trigger weight set and help shooters by offering to check their trigger weights and help explain the rules and procedures. I find shooters appreciate the offer and have asked me to recheck at the next match.

I look at shoes to be sure the ankle is exposed, but again will not ask somebody to leave. Next mach, folks comply. Yes, the correct type of weapon must be used. I might suggest we not send in somebody’s score if they are obviously out of compliance.

I remember lots of excitement about changes in blinders etc when that change came out.

Pete S. totally sensible, I do the same thing. I really don't think you have to worry about the people just starting, it's best to use it as an oportunity for friendly instruction rather than crack down like a "rules nazi" and chase people out of the sport and lets face it the sport needs all the participants it can get.

The really sad thing about all this is that it is obvious that the "leaders" of the ISSF seem to think that being in the Olympics is the only thing going for the sport.

So, as a result, virtually every rule change whether it be clothing, tinkering with the finals (at leaset 5 versions of Rapid Fire final so far) or any number of "minor" things is purley to appease (or attempt to appease) the IOC.

The simple fact is that ISSF is struggling to attract new participants. In countries where the law allows, many (or most) new shooters are gravitating to IPSC because it's dynamic and fun.

If the ISSF really wanted to change the image of the sport and make it more like a "sport" (as opposed to a pastime as it is for most) then they need to look into perhaps a summer biathalon where competitors run and shoot, the use of reactive targets (falling plate) and "man v man" type of events.

All of this I suspect will be far too radical for some.

R.M. wrote:

Lima wrote:.........In any case it seems that this is restricted to elite level global competitions where hopefully the related national body can provide trackies and perhaps even a blazer for glory moments.

That is if your country has money for uniforms. I know for a fact, not all teams have uniforms supplied. After paying out of pocket for flights, lodging, meals, etc, I don't think it should be expected of the athlete to pony up for whatever it is the bureaucrats dream up.

Point taken. I can see the point in things like no gaping open tops for the ladies what with the booby burn from the shells, same thing wearing thongs whilst shooting. But much of this seems to be "busy work", I guess you have to make up regulations and revise them to justify your own position. Personally I wear clothes for comfort, not visual appeal. Maybe we could borrow a mascot's uniform if we make the lucky three? Just your head peeking out of a giant kangaroo or koala.

It does seem that this was brought about because of people with rough looking shorts. Does anyone have any pics of "embarrassing outfits" whilst standing on the podium?

As with all things we trust to the good judgment of the Jury.

I was wondering about shooter like Ralf Schumann? Edit: actually it looks like he gets a three month "leave of absence" from his workplace to compete and train.

Looks like the USAS supported guys have quite specific rules on what can and can't be worn:

http://www.usashooting.com/policies/usa ... -28-08.pdf

No exposed bellies either *Dang it*

One question. Can someone over 18 and under 21 drink whilst out of the US during an international style competition? The code mentions "during the event" so I assume a hot toddy after getting back to the hotel would be OK?

One question. Can someone over 18 and under 21 drink whilst out of the US during an international style competition? The code mentions "during the event" so I assume a hot toddy after getting back to the hotel would be OK?

The answer is definitely no! Regardless of the drinking age in the country where the match is occuring, no one under 21 on a trip funded by USA Shooting is allowed to drink. The legal drinking age in the US is 21. Even those over 21 and especially coaches are not allowed to drink while wearing team identifying clothing.

Almost every "rule" in the code of conduct for USA Shooting athletes (and coaches) is there to protect the federation and to keep from embarassing sponsors. Imagine a photo of a top athlete wearing a skimpy top or short shorts with a sponsors product in the background or foreground. Or an athlete changing on the range down to his or her underwear. We have all probably seen it. It is not unusual in Europe. These compromising situations have the potential to damage the reputation of the athlete and the federation. I wouldn't say we are being prudish, just protecting our relationships with our sponsors.

Marcus

Marcus wrote:The legal drinking age in the US is 21.

So what? Non sequitur.

Marcus wrote: Almost every "rule" in the code of conduct for USA Shooting athletes (and coaches) is there to protect the federation and to keep from embarassing sponsors. Imagine a photo of a top athlete wearing a skimpy top or short shorts with a sponsors product in the background or foreground. ... These compromising situations have the potential to damage the reputation of the athlete and the federation.
Marcus

which is exactly why that cowgirl photo that pilk had on his site had such negative connotations. very few seemed to understand or care about the implications. Thank You Marcus.

Just out of interest, the ISSF have now issued a more formal version.

David ... can you check the link ... it's failed for me

Replying to following post: getting internet tax credits ... saving posting space --> Must be my companies filter .... I'll try when I get home

Just checked it. It seems to work fine for me. The full version is:-

http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... ssCode.pdf

From the ISSF web site, PHOTOS tab

http://www.issf-sports.org/photoplayer. ... y=990-6192

Do I see blue jeans and track suits?

"sports type clothing" so I guess that means we can wear bathing suits. These guys who write this stuff make me laugh.

Doesn't "sports type clothing" depend on the type of sport, up until now jeans were the clothing that was worn for pistol so would that make them sports type clothing?

Richard H wrote:"sports type clothing" so I guess that means we can wear bathing suits. These guys who write this stuff make me laugh.

I could also come to terms with beach volleyball attire... am sooo tolerant. :)

Alexander

The women maybe but some of those big hairy guys in speedos, I just find that troubling. Maybe the Borat mankini is sporting enough as long as it's a sporting colour of course.