Steve Swartz wrote:Richard (and Russ):
I'm sorry (and frankly puzzled) that this is such an emotional issue for you guys.
I offer my opinion- whether you care or not- on rules in general; I think they are necessary to keep a level playing field. Frankly, as long as everyone is playing by the same rules, for the most part I just "Cowboy Up" and go along. Yes, the blinder rule may have been stupid/for stupid reasons but hey, I got a pair of scissors, did the deed, and pressed on.
And I have never (and probably never will) protest or even talk to a MD when I see someone else breaking the rules . . . if all it does is hurt me. Hey, I take it as a compliment when somebody feels they need to cheat me to beat me.
I have already offered my opinion on the difficulty of scoring 5 shots per target in air pistol for competitors at the 570+ level. However, to reiterate, without the use of templates and outside gages (like the Eagle Eye) it can be difficult to accurately reconstruct the 9s from the 10s on a single ragged hole, offset slightly from dead center. I have plenty of paper targets (I guess I should have digitized one to include as an exhibit here) that prove the point.
And yes, this is only an issue when:
- You have 570+ shooters; and
- You have an inexperienced and/or "laid back" MD, or
- The MD doesn't expect tightly clustered shots and so doesn't have the proper templates and gages
And I'm not alone in my opinion, as much as it may seem here. I have heard more than one world class athlete . . . and well respected coach . . . make the comment about a high score by saying "Yeah, but he shot that at a 5-shot match" with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge implication that the score was not as accurate if the circumstances had been different.
Without some kind of a poll of top shooters/coaches to back it up, I guess you will either have to take my word for it or not. But there is a common (if not widely held?) perception that scores above 570 shot at 5-shot/card matches are to be discounted or do not hold as much weight as "legal" matches.
Not sure if any more circles around this issue would help or not. Maybe this is just one more issue where I'm out in left field . . .
Steve Swartz
I think we tend to read more into these post then are there, personally I'm not really emotional over the issue. This last post of yours I don't disagree with at all as we always have over lays at all the matches I've ever been to in Canada (maybe its different in your neck of the woods).
I agree totally its different shooting 5/per thats why I went to shooting 5 per as singles that way it keeps it the same for me no matter which matches I shoot (thats why I offered it as a suggestion if your faced with having to shoot multiples/bull). I've yet to have anyone complain about it and I picked it up from a couple other national level shooters (can't take credit for the idea). If ask to shoot 5 per target consectutively I would comply.
I'll re qualify my statement scoreing 5 shots/bull with
templates and overlays is not that difficult when shot on quality targets with decent pistols that punch clean holes (which most top level shooters are using). There are occasions when you must give the benefit of the doubt for a double ( but a guy who has a clear group the size of a dime in the 9-10 ring didn't miss the target with the 5th shot so he may get an extra point, that being said all competitors are shooting the same targets in the sane conditions being scored the same way so its not an issue of fairness.
The athletes/coahes comment that you quoted I also agree with, you have to compare like events. The fact that some shoots 580 in there basemrnt cant be compared to someone elses score in a really match.
In the end I think we agree on a lot of points. Just for reference to go to single shot in our winter league that would require going from approx. 3600 targets to 18000 targets which is a pretty big expense (unfortunately shooters seem to fall in two groups those that expnse if no issue and those that are lets say very thrifty, the thrifty ones seem to out number the others).
Just for clarification I'm not upset by anyone or anything in this thread or any others for that matter (I'm a pretty happy person who for the most part is just happy going with the flow), but I really don't mind having a lively debate and don't take arguements personally.
