TargetTalk

My opinion, set the darn thing so it fits and points straight and leave it alone.

Exactly what I have been saying. However everyone does not have set up skills or a pistol that can be set to suit personal needs.
Having these features “inbuilt” is a huge step forward in assisting a shooter to start on the right foot.

As a coach, assist your shooters in how to get the adjusts set to fit them. Beyond that, discourage making constant adustments.

Exactly what I have been doing.

By and large, the ones that were constantly monkeying with their equipment seldom shot competitive scores.

Exactly my opinion as well and that is why as part of my coaching I become involved with pistol setup. It is much easier with a pistol that has:

Adjustable rear sight depth and width.

Adjustable grip rake and rotation.

Adjustable trigger length, rotation, height,... first stage length, force...second stage pressure and movement.

Who cares about how the features might suit a future owner? I only cared about how they worked for me.

......NICE ATTITUDE !

My point here was that the benefits of personalisation will also be available to others if it is onsold.

How could your needs change? The size of your hand? The length of your fingers?

I deal with a lot of older shooters who still enjoy pistol shooting and you would be amazed how arthritis and vision deterioration create a change to their abilities and needs fairly regularly.
Several of our shooters were on the verge of throwing in the towel had it not been for changes having been made to improve comfort and execution.

With younger shooters the “set up and leave” policy is always my advice but older shooters may need larger sights, altered rake angle and more in order to accomodate adequately.
This is where I can advise in order for them to gain maximum comfort and enjoyment and this is made possible and easier by owning a pistol capable of personalisation.

As a former serious competitor for many years, I saw a lot of shooters come and go. I watched and learned from almost all of them. By and large, the ones that were constantly monkeying with their equipment seldom shot competitive scores.

Couldn’t agree more.....however my comments are not to encourage fiddling, but to have changes available if needed.
And then do nothing but receive instruction from a coach and practice technique !

The problem is that the adjustments are too easy to make so it is often the first thing the shooter goes to, rather than working on what might be the real issue. Something might become an issue in someones mind only if an easy alteration can be made for a perceived cure. Otherwise, it might be given no thought. I am not against "modern" guns and the advancements that come along with them. Let's face it, most shooters are in love with the IDEA of these features and have little practical use for these features. The top shooters use the most up to date guns because they get them free so who can blame them for changing. Target guns are extremely durable. In all the years I shot (free and air), I never had a single failure. The companies couldn't SELL me anything because nothing I had was broken or worn out. But today if you buy new equipment, and I recommend that you do, you get all the whiz bang stuff that goes with it. But not to get too far away from my point, when purchasing a gun, I would not focus on the adjustability but rather the balance, feel and if you like it...if you like to simply look at it, or hold it while you watch TV because you feel naked without it in your hand. If you feel this way, you will shoot it well.

Oh yes, as for my "nice attitude"...damn right. There are no performance improvements to be had for consideration of how the next guy might like my gun. I absolutely could not care less.

Wow, you guys got into some deep philosophical discussion there.....

Anyways, triggers:

My first AP, a used Pardini K2, still has one of the best mechanical triggers I've ever spent extended time with. The K10 was a bit of a regression (or so I hear), but the K12 is back to being one of the best on the line right now.

The Morini is probably the best electronic trigger I've shot, if you're into that kind of thing.

I bought an LP10e from Mr Pilk and ended up sending it back because I couldn't stand how sloppy the second stage felt. Maybe I just got a lemon, maybe I'm just a terrible shooter, maybe a combination of both. But regardless, I'm much happier with the LP10 mechanical than I was with the electronic. Not quite as crisp as the K2, but good enough that I have no plans on switching any time soon. I don't like the stock trigger shoe, though. I saw John Bickar shooting his with one of these, and bought one for myself. The one case where I would say that yes, you can buy points! A massive improvement in feel for me.

Walther? Who knows. Jay used his to great effect but after some of the horror stories that I heard about Mr Kim's junior shooters' Walthers, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money there. Maybe their newest offering fixed some of those issues.

when purchasing a gun, I would not focus on the adjustability but rather the balance, feel and if you like it...if you like to simply look at it, or hold it while you watch TV because you feel naked without it

Couldn’t agree more regarding feel and balance as being the most important prime ingredients but for me the adjustability is the icing on the cake.

Oh yes, as for my "nice attitude"...damn right. There are no performance improvements to be had for consideration of how the next guy might like my gun. I absolutely could not care less. love the extras.

They broke the mould after you BEA.........

I am not sure where the "love the extras" came from on the end of my quote, but anyway. As for having broke the mould, not hardly. You will find that most shooters probably agree with me for the most part. I have owned a FWB 65, FWB 2, Styer LP1, Walther CMP2, Walther LP200, Styer LP10, Pardini K12 and now a Morini 162ei. They have all had great triggers. They broke clean and once set, not one of them changed over the period I owned them. 100% reliable.

SeanM...all the top models now have good triggers in my opinion, except perhaps for the latest Walthers. I think they feel kind of mushy, but I could get used to it if I shot it a while. So, picking an air pistol is kind of like picking a woman...you want one that is proven, pretty and feels good. Then take it home and practice, practice, practice.

BEA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:51 pmSo, picking an air pistol is kind of like picking a woman...you want one that is proven, pretty and feels good. Then take it home and practice, practice, practice.

Oh my....

There is no one perfect trigger, neither electronic nor mechanical, both have limitations.
But the biggest limitation of all, are the Shooter's and Coach's that fiddle settings and do not
know what they are doing.
All they do is get it so far out of wack that a trip to a gunsmith is required, but not just any
Gunsmith but someone who fully understands the top end ISSF pistols.
Some are easier to set, some are harder, some require spring changes, and some require polish.
Manufactures don't help with their manuals as there is multiple terminology for different functions,
the Germans are different to the Italians, to the Swiss etc.

As far as I can remember SAM 10 (by Cesre Morini) had the best mechanical trigger https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/11 ... ol-part-1/ but Pardini K12 now has the best mechanical trigger. The two triggers are different since the trigger (second stage) of K12 is a bit "short" while the trigger of SAM 10 is more "material".

I owned a SAM M10/5 for many years until just recently, and to be honest the trigger was very good however paled compared to my FWB P8X or LP 10.

These are AP triggers...in the live fire world the Hammerli 280, SP 20 were voted best trigger on an International poll some years back but the outcome may be different if taken today.

I wasn't going to comment on best trigger because I think grip is more important than trigger.
I haven't tried the K12 but I also believe the P8X trigger would/could be the best out there except that the trigger shoe is a bit small. So I replaced mine with a Walther GSP metal shoe.
Now I've got the best trigger with a sublime Rink grip.
Just need more practice now........

Are you saying you spent all that money with no increase in your scores?

Yes. I think you need a good platform that you have confidence in to start with, doesn't matter what the brand is. The P8X had the most adjustability - hence my choice.

+1 on the P8x. Im shooting a P44 and the trigger is tbe best Ive ever touched.

Who cares, it is more important you fit the pistol and can position the trigger where you need it to be. If the Morini does not fit well, it does not matter if the trigger is the better one. If you hate the weight distribution of either pistol it will not matter if it has the best trigger on the planet. I changed from a mechanical Steyr to an electronic one, it took awhile for me to appreciate the electronic trigger. I would not change back. I do not shoot any better with the electronic Steyr. The amount I use a Scatt makes the electronic the most useful one for me. My change was from a LP1 to a LP10E.
You are the one buying the pistol, it is what works for you like that matters.

In case you hadn’t noticed KH 250 the OP asked the question ....

Poor choice of words, "who cares". Maybe I should have said. For me it is only one aspect of a pistol.
The question that was asked which pistol has the best trigger Morini electronic or Pardini K12. Not many people gave an answer to the original question, and neither did I. Just concerned that this was the only criteria for someone to buy a pistol.
If the trigger quality is the only reason you buy a pistol then good luck to you. If it is the difference between two pistols that fit you and you like, then get the one with the better trigger. As mentioned by other people one difference between a electronic and mechanical is that you can use an electronic trainer with less effort.
My choice of electronic over mechanical is based on the things are important to me. I am not a Steyr "fan boy" so my choice of a Steyr is based on what I know and like. I am not suggesting the Steyr is a better choice for you.

So, just like a woman, there's always one better out there. So just keep swapping.

BEA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:51 pm I have owned a FWB 65, FWB 2, Styer LP1, Walther CMP2, Walther LP200, Styer LP10, Pardini K12 and now a Morini 162ei. They have all had great triggers. They broke clean and once set, not one of them changed over the period I owned them. 100% reliable.
So, picking an air pistol is kind of like picking a woman...you want one that is proven, pretty and feels good. Then take it home and practice, practice, practice.

"The best trigger is your finger"
-django 19/03/2019-