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Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:11 pm
by cloudswimmer
kle wrote:
cloudswimmer wrote:Yeah last night Pardini Italy sent me a photo of the new K12's, they did some cosmetic changes to the pistol I don't like i.e. the cylinder is now a blindingly bright neon white, and the bolt is now black with the word 'Absorber' written on it, and the made in Italy logo is a funky font. Being a collector first and shooter second I just can't handle the looks. I figured either the Morini or Pardini will always out shoot me so I may as well get the one that's prettier to me, plus it's an older classic design that's been around a long time which adds to the collectibility for me. Thanks for the pic, looks like you have a nice house there, and Im liking your flooring and your Pardini, nice little shooting setup you got there!
I suppose all of the "top tier" PCP guns can all punch out the inner-10-ring just fine (and yes, Rover, so will any SSP made in the last century, too), so at this point other reasons, including aesthetics, as well as features and geometry such as [adjustable] grip angle, trigger adjustments, et cetera, definitely come into play.

My house is a townhouse, which is why the rooms/floors are laid out as they are. I finally got rid of the carpeting in the living room and dining room and replaced it with hardwood flooring last year - looks way better, feels better, less need to vacuum (just run a duster like a Swiffer or something and I'm done). To make the flooring bit more germane to shooting airpistol in my house: I noticed a lot more slapback echo after each shot when I went to hardwood flooring, even when using hearing protection (my Morini with its compensator seems much louder than my IZH-46M and my Pardini K58, which have no compensators), which I found to be a little distracting. Putting a big area rug in the living room where I shoot from helped cut that down a bit.
So is that a window you have for a back stop? I'm thinking of shooting the other direction with my Gehman target holder in the kitchen, but my only backstop is the window which ain't bullet proof glass yikes :)

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:14 pm
by kle
cloudswimmer wrote:So is that a window you have for a back stop?
...yes, heh. I have windows in either direction, actually. Knock on wood, of course, but I haven't missed my trap yet. I still kinda want to put up a better backstop, though.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:08 pm
by Deigeh Nisht
I erus

ain't gots no
eulc abouts

this lead thang.


It dah no af fect on me.


Best sesihw ,


Deigeh
who?

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:29 am
by cloudswimmer
kle wrote:
cloudswimmer wrote:So is that a window you have for a back stop?
...yes, heh. I have windows in either direction, actually. Knock on wood, of course, but I haven't missed my trap yet. I still kinda want to put up a better backstop, though.
Cool :) Kinda forces you to concentrate on your shots more :D

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:14 pm
by SPPcoach
Gwhite wrote:Here is a few data points on how terribly hazardous lead is NOT:

The primary path for lead poisoning is through ingestion. If you wash up after dealing with lead, and don't eat anywhere near a contaminated area, you should be OK. The remaining hazard is that lead fumes & dust can get deposited in your nose & throat, which can work its way down into your digestive system. If you don't have good ventilation to keep airborn lead out of your face, a good dust mask will take care of 99% of what's left. If you want to be REALLY careful, use a respirator rated for welding fumes. Blowing your nose when you are done is also not a bad idea.

If you have young children, you have to be more careful.
I agree with you entirely that lead can be safely managed if proper precautions are in place including many that you listed above. Additionally, never dry sweeping, only wet mopping or HEPA vaccuuming areas where lead contamination exists.

We need to be cautious about not minimizing the very real threat of lead exposure. There is no safe level of lead in the human body. The EPA action limit is well above '0' before chelation is required but lead is the most toxic non-nuclear element to humans.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:05 pm
by cloudswimmer
SPPcoach wrote:
Gwhite wrote:Here is a few data points on how terribly hazardous lead is NOT:

The primary path for lead poisoning is through ingestion. If you wash up after dealing with lead, and don't eat anywhere near a contaminated area, you should be OK. The remaining hazard is that lead fumes & dust can get deposited in your nose & throat, which can work its way down into your digestive system. If you don't have good ventilation to keep airborn lead out of your face, a good dust mask will take care of 99% of what's left. If you want to be REALLY careful, use a respirator rated for welding fumes. Blowing your nose when you are done is also not a bad idea.

If you have young children, you have to be more careful.
I agree with you entirely that lead can be safely managed if proper precautions are in place including many that you listed above. Additionally, never dry sweeping, only wet mopping or HEPA vaccuuming areas where lead contamination exists.

We need to be cautious about not minimizing the very real threat of lead exposure. There is no safe level of lead in the human body. The EPA action limit is well above '0' before chelation is required but lead is the most toxic non-nuclear element to humans.
According to the rigorous testing done at the Olympic training center as cited in the PDA above, there was no evidence of airborne lead along the firing line nor anywhere else in the building, and all the athletes blood test came back negative. The small fragments that did shear off along the firing line they say were large and heavy enough to fall immediately to the ground and not become airborne. So my question is then why would you need a hepa vacuum for clean up? They don't mention needing a hepa vacuum for cleanup in the management section of the PDA.

Thanks...............C

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:22 pm
by shaky hands
SPPcoach wrote: lead is the most toxic non-nuclear element to humans.
What is a "non-nuclear element"? Atoms of all elements have nuclei. You probable meant "non-radioactive." Even so, there are many elements way more toxic than lead: beryllium, mercury, arsenic, fluorine, thallium.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:57 pm
by SPPcoach
shaky hands wrote:
SPPcoach wrote: lead is the most toxic non-nuclear element to humans.
You probable meant "non-radioactive." Even so, there are many elements way more toxic than lead: beryllium, mercury, arsenic, fluorine, thallium.
You are correct. I did mean non-radioactive.
I am not an industrial hygienist or a scientist (I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn last night either), so I do not know about the toxicity of those other elements or at what level they become harmful to humans. I do know that the hygienist told us, that lead in humans at ANY level was harmful and that it was the most toxic non-radioactive element. The EPA has set an 'action level' where individuals are required to undergo chelation to lower the levels of lead in their blood stream. I know two individuals that have undergone this procedure and they do not think that it is a fun process. In both cases, their shooting activities were the primary suspect of the lead in their system. When they changed their behavior / frequency /location of their shooting competitions, the lead levels were reduced. There is actually a fair amount of data on the consequences of lead in humans from the 1970's thanks to lead paint, lead gasoline and other sources.

If you have information that indicates that other elements are more toxic, I would not debate you on the subject. My point is that the concern over lead is legitimate and should not be dismissed. It should also not be this big scary bogeyman that many antis like to use as a hammer to threaten shooting ranges. It can be managed safely, but only by those that are aware of proper procedures, follow them and respect the harm that it can to humans and the environment if it is treated casually.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:37 pm
by SPPcoach
cloudswimmer wrote: According to the rigorous testing done at the Olympic training center as cited in the PDA above, there was no evidence of airborne lead along the firing line nor anywhere else in the building, and all the athletes blood test came back negative. The small fragments that did shear off along the firing line they say were large and heavy enough to fall immediately to the ground and not become airborne. So my question is then why would you need a hepa vacuum for clean up? They don't mention needing a hepa vacuum for cleanup in the management section of the PDA.

Thanks...............C
Yes you do need a HEPA vacuum.
You are correct in your reading of the report that there is no airborne lead to contaminate the athletes or possibly allow them to aspirate the lead. What you are not recognizing, is that the athletes do not go forward of the firing line. When someone is shooting in their house they will be going forward of the firing line when their practice is done. The report does NOT state that there is no lead downrange. It states that the lead that is discharged when the air gun is fired is heavy enough that it falls to the ground and does not remain airborne. For those that shoot airguns in their home be aware that there will be lead on the ground. Don't have kids, great. How about grandkids, or neighbors? That is what the HEPA vacuum is for. Dry sweeping is a known 'no-no.'
The report you are reading also refers to airgun. Notice that airgun does not include .22 long rifle which is used in 25M International Rapid Fire and women's Sport pistol which is also shot on the OTC range upstairs and downstairs.
The protocols for the safety of the athletes and those that work at the OTC are very well established and the report you reference was written to keep people safe. The OTC is pro-active in its responsibility to keep our sport safe. For example. 1) Athletes do NOT go forward of the firing line to eliminate the possibility of contamination from contact with the ground. The athletes could still become contaminated thru poor hygiene if they don't wash their hands after handling pellets. This is a training issue. 2) Only AUTHORIZED personnel can go forward of the firing line. These people must wear the cute little blue booties over their shoes before they step forward of the firing line otherwise their shoes will become contaminated with lead. Those shoe covers must be treated as a hazardous waste. Even the cords of the HEPA vacuum that is used on the range can not drag over parts of the floor that has not been vacuumed. The HEPA vacuum that IS on the range at the OTC is the giant 5' tall chrome R2D2 looking thing that stands near the back wall. 3) Anyone going to retrieve targets from the .22 axis of the range will exchange the first set of blue booties for the second set of booties that are left on the range near the impact zone. The floor here is highly coated with lead dust from the impact of the bullets with the backstop. This lead dust coating on the floor is visible from the firing line. The second set of booties must be left in the impact zone and replaced with the 1st set when returning back up range. The first set of booties is left at the firing line when departing the downrange area.
Anytime the firing line at the OTC is moved forward, the HEPA vacuum is used to clean the floors first.
This is all reasonable to keep people safe. Manage the problem, don't ignore it. Get training, follow procedures, enjoy the good life.
I bring all this up because the kind of trap that is used is directly responsible for the amount of lead that can be in the air / on the floor. A steel smash plate will put more lead dust in the air than a rubber granule trap. This forum is a great opportunity to get knowledgeable on these subjects in order to make good decisions based on known facts.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:56 pm
by shaky hands
The toxicity of lead in adults is rather moderate. No one will offer you chelation therapy unless you are above 50 microgram/dL and suffer from lead-specific symptoms. If you are worried, ask your family doctor to check your lead together with you cholesterol annually. I am yet to meet someone whose level would be in the 20-30 range and whose health would be affected by that. Admittedly, none of those I know with such levels would be doing cosmology or string theory for living. I had my own level at 20.1, and just as a precaution began to shoot indoors with a respirator and saw my level decrease five-fold within a few years. I had noticed no health-related effects (in either direction), before I picked up shooting, while I had elevated lead levels, and when they went down again. Note also that airguns produce only metallic lead (no lead styphnate vapors, like primers in powder gun ammunition tend to do), and the rate at which your body absorbs metallic lead from dust particles is many times lower than from vapors.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:17 am
by cloudswimmer
SPPcoach wrote:
cloudswimmer wrote: According to the rigorous testing done at the Olympic training center as cited in the PDA above, there was no evidence of airborne lead along the firing line nor anywhere else in the building, and all the athletes blood test came back negative. The small fragments that did shear off along the firing line they say were large and heavy enough to fall immediately to the ground and not become airborne. So my question is then why would you need a hepa vacuum for clean up? They don't mention needing a hepa vacuum for cleanup in the management section of the PDA.

Thanks...............C
Yes you do need a HEPA vacuum.
You are correct in your reading of the report that there is no airborne lead to contaminate the athletes or possibly allow them to aspirate the lead. What you are not recognizing, is that the athletes do not go forward of the firing line. When someone is shooting in their house they will be going forward of the firing line when their practice is done. The report does NOT state that there is no lead downrange. It states that the lead that is discharged when the air gun is fired is heavy enough that it falls to the ground and does not remain airborne. For those that shoot airguns in their home be aware that there will be lead on the ground. Don't have kids, great. How about grandkids, or neighbors? That is what the HEPA vacuum is for. Dry sweeping is a known 'no-no.'
The report you are reading also refers to airgun. Notice that airgun does not include .22 long rifle which is used in 25M International Rapid Fire and women's Sport pistol which is also shot on the OTC range upstairs and downstairs.
The protocols for the safety of the athletes and those that work at the OTC are very well established and the report you reference was written to keep people safe. The OTC is pro-active in its responsibility to keep our sport safe. For example. 1) Athletes do NOT go forward of the firing line to eliminate the possibility of contamination from contact with the ground. The athletes could still become contaminated thru poor hygiene if they don't wash their hands after handling pellets. This is a training issue. 2) Only AUTHORIZED personnel can go forward of the firing line. These people must wear the cute little blue booties over their shoes before they step forward of the firing line otherwise their shoes will become contaminated with lead. Those shoe covers must be treated as a hazardous waste. Even the cords of the HEPA vacuum that is used on the range can not drag over parts of the floor that has not been vacuumed. The HEPA vacuum that IS on the range at the OTC is the giant 5' tall chrome R2D2 looking thing that stands near the back wall. 3) Anyone going to retrieve targets from the .22 axis of the range will exchange the first set of blue booties for the second set of booties that are left on the range near the impact zone. The floor here is highly coated with lead dust from the impact of the bullets with the backstop. This lead dust coating on the floor is visible from the firing line. The second set of booties must be left in the impact zone and replaced with the 1st set when returning back up range. The first set of booties is left at the firing line when departing the downrange area.
Anytime the firing line at the OTC is moved forward, the HEPA vacuum is used to clean the floors first.
This is all reasonable to keep people safe. Manage the problem, don't ignore it. Get training, follow procedures, enjoy the good life.
I bring all this up because the kind of trap that is used is directly responsible for the amount of lead that can be in the air / on the floor. A steel smash plate will put more lead dust in the air than a rubber granule trap. This forum is a great opportunity to get knowledgeable on these subjects in order to make good decisions based on known facts.
They did have airborn detectors at various spots along the firing line and detected no airborne levels. So as you say and the report says the lead that does exist on the range is heavy and on the ground and needs to be periodically cleaned to avoid tracking it around. Now consider the average middle income home in the U.S. with let's say 2 kids and a pet. I have never been asked to remove my shoes in 50 years when entering into friends homes or parties, nor have we required our friends or guest to remove theirs. So what's coming into our homes and being deposited over time into our carpet via our friends, loved ones, utility workers, salesman, etc. shoes? Or how about the ammonium chloride, heavy metals, or hydro flourisic acid in the many municipal water supply's in this country? Or how about the proven toxins in our vaccines and flu shots? The GMO in our foods, or the dangerous levels of RF radiation in now virtually every electric company smart meter on the side of our houses? Seems a few small weighted fragments from pellets shot a few times a week in our living rooms and then vacuumed with a modern day Dyson/Hoover/Electrolux afterwards is the least of our health problems :)

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:57 pm
by SamEEE
Don't forget Chemtrails.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:51 am
by shaky hands
Ernisto wrote:It depends on the jurisdiction in which you live. In a state that applies the "Castle" doctrine, someone who illegally enters your home is basically presumed to intend severe bodily harm or death to you or your family, so you are entitled to use lethal force against them. In non-Castle states, the standard rules for self-defense would apply, which may or may not require that you attempt to reasonably retreat to safety before using lethal force.
That's hilarious! You made my day, thank you. And welcome to the board. (Though we usually talk here about target shooting in the home.)

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:10 am
by cloudswimmer
SamEEE wrote:Don't forget Chemtrails.
Dang thought I had it all covered ;) Anyway I think I've found my solution, these plastic hallway carpet runners from Amazon..............ohh.......wait.......PVC out gassing........double dang ;)

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:53 pm
by Owl
cloudswimmer wrote: So anyone shooting at home indoors? If so I'd like to hear your experiences, how you do it and where.
Chris

I shoot in my basement, targets on a pellet trap. I ignore the lead issue.
-Marty-

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:05 pm
by mikeyj
I have a measured 10m range in the basement- just a Gehmann trap and a big stack of targets.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:46 pm
by SPPcoach
I found this string interesting and relevant to this discussion. It discusses the real hazards of lead from someone that is trained to understand them as compared to the coffee table conversations and unfounded opinions that frequent conversations.
Joe Matusic, MD wrote: on December 22, 2001 at 12:59:33:
I am a board certified pediatrician and assistant professor of pediatrics for your reference.
I think you are very mistaken in your downplaying of the hazards of lead. I do agree that some of the lead "dust" could be target particulates or lead dust rubbing off on the paper, but a significant amount of lead will still be contaminating the environment in the form of lead particles, flakes etc, when shooting into metal targets. The lead on the floor gets carried all over the house on the shoes and fingers. It’s inevitable that the lead could find its way into the body. I saw a buddy shooting into a gamo metal trap outside a few years ago. He only fired 10-15 pellets into the trap. I was amazed at how much and how fine the lead particles were that were in the bottom of the trap. You comment of lead dust or fumes being of little risk is also incorrect. You only absorb a small percentage of ingested lead, while you absorb the majority of the inhaled lead. Most cases of lead poisoning in children are not from ingesting lead paint chips like we all used to think, its from inhaling lead dust from deteriorating pain or inhaling lead fumes from lead candle wicks. I have been testing all of my patients for the last 2 year due to a state mandate (not just by risk factors). I have seen a few interesting elevations. One child had a level of 26 (cut off 10, hospitalize at 30) and his only known source was the mother burning lead wicked candles (several at once daily for months). The other was a child who had a level in the low 20s. The only source we could find was that he was handling lead pellets that morning and didn't wash his hands before the exam. We took a finger stick and got an elevated level. When we repeated the level via a regular blood draw in the arm, the level was zero.
I too had difficulty finding much in the medical literature on lead from shooting sports. There were several references regarding lead poisoning in indoor target firearms ranges in California (one mentioned that the air quality was part of the problem, but a bigger problem was sweeping up the lead causing lead dust to be inhaled and this causing lead poisoning), many references of guys smelting their own lead and either getting lead poisoning or death. One other example was right here in the capitol of WV. A few years ago, they were remodeling the governors mansion. Some workers became ill and had to be hospitalized. It turned out to be lead poisoning from inhaling the demolition dust from walls painted with layers of lead paint.
Please read my article on lead safety for airgunners on my web site http://www.babymd.net/aa.htm One other thought. Some new laws are on the books in several states requiring testing older houses for lead at sale. Some laws only require a declaration that you are unaware of lead contamination or the use of lead paint. If your house is found to be contaminated with lead you will be very unhappy with the cost of lead abatement.
Original thread here:
http://www.pilkguns.com/arch/arch161.htm

It lead (pun) here:
http://www.babymd.net/lead.htm
Joe Matusic, MD wrote: LEAD PRECAUTIONS FOR AIRGUNNERS (and everyone else too)
This article is intended to inform airgunners of appropriate precautions to take regarding lead. There are legitimate risks to lead exposure just as there are from pointing a cocked and loaded airgun at someone. It is not my intent to scare anyone away from airguns nor do I want you to stop using your airgun. Just as you wouldn’t take apart a spring piston gun without adequate instruction and equipment, you should not ignore the risks of lead. Only with knowledge can you make appropriate decisions regarding the safe handling of lead pellets. Further, if we all approach lead with the respect it deserves, then no special interest groups can use lead poisoning in their arguments for gun control. The main risk that lead posses to you and your family is from inhalation of lead dust, ingestion of lead from lead on your finger tips from handling pellets and accidental ingestion of lead pellets.

PRECAUTIONS: THE SHORT VERSION

When handling pellets, do not eat, drink or touch your or your children’s mouth, eyes, or nose.

After you are done touching the pellets and your guns, wash and rinse your face and hands thoroughly.

Do not work on your airgun or place the pellets where food is consumed or prepared unless you thoroughly clean the area afterwards.

Make sure to remove all pellets from where a small child could find and ingest one.

When shooting indoors, avoid using metallic pellet traps in living areas.

Do not burn targets or traps or anything that could possibly contain lead as you can inhale enough lead in the fumes to be toxic.

If you have children, you or a family member have any signs of lead toxicity (see main text for symptoms) or are thinking about having children in the near future, then let your doctor know you handle lead pellets, give your doctor this article and ask your doctor for advice on lead safety and lead testing.

HEALTH EFFECTS OF LEAD: Lead can affect several areas as outlined below. The effects of lead are still not completely understood. We do know that cumulative exposure, such as through the workplace, can cause damage just as a single high dose exposure can. With chronic exposure, lead toxicity does not just abruptly show up with a symptom, rather it is a continuum of symptoms as the blood lead level increases. Some of the effects are due to permanent damage, while others are only present while the lead is present and resolve once the lead is removed.

BLOOD: Lead inhibits two enzymes necessary for blood production even at low levels. Zinc ProtoPorphyrin (ZPP) is a byproduct of lead poisoning that was first used as a screen for lead poisoning. A blood lead level of 10 ug lead / dl blood is the current limit for children. ZPP is elevated with levels as low as 20 ug lead / dl blood. As the lead level increases above 50 ug lead / dl blood, anemia is produced by two mechanisms. Acutely, poisoning leads to decreased red blood cell survival (normal adult red blood cells last 120 days and are continually produced). Chronic poisoning inhibits the body’s ability to replace the red blood cells. The symptoms of anemia include: dizziness, fatigue, weakness and increased heart rate. The normal healthy body has more than enough blood, lung and heart capacity, but those with a blood, lung or heart disorder may not have enough extra capacity to handle even minor anemia.

NEUROLOGIC: There are separate effects on the central nervous system (brain) and peripheral nervous system (nerves between the brain and muscles)

BRAIN: Ingestion or inhalation of LARGE amounts of lead, such as eating lead pellets or paint chips, can lead to rapid onset of unstoppable seizures, coma, cardiorespiratory arrest (heart and lung failure) and death. On a literature search, I did find several reports of death from lead paint chip ingestion and work related exposure, but none from lead pellet ingestion (this does not say that it cannot or has not happened). Chronic exposure can lead to irritability, restlessness, insomnia, sleep disturbances, fatigue, vertigo, headache, poor memory, muscle tremor, depression, apathy and as the level increases drowsiness, stupor, hallucinations, delirium, seizures and coma can occur. These symptoms usually do not occur below 60 ug lead /dl blood. Once these symptoms occur, they are sometimes not reversible or even recur once therapy is stopped. The treatment involves a chemical that binds the lead available in the blood and this combination is then removed from the blood. Some of the lead is deposited in the bones permanently and cannot be removed through this therapy.

NERVES TO MUSCLES: Lead seems to selectively damage the nerves leading to muscles rather than those you sense and feel with and the damage can occur at levels above 50 ug lead / dl blood. Lead also seems to affect the most used muscles more. The first effects may be seen in those muscles that extend the fingers and hand in the most commonly used extremity. This is occasionally followed by weakness in the wrist or ankle. The muscles can also develop fibrillations and fasciculations (tremors). These effects can occasionally be partially reversed with therapy.

GASTROINTESTINAL: Levels above 80 ug lead / dl blood can lead to abdominal pain, gas spasm type pain, constipation, diarrhea, anorexia, nausea, vomiting.

KIDNEY: Lead damages the ability of the kidney to filter out the toxins while retaining what the body needs. Since the kidneys have much more capacity that we normally need, the early effects of lead poisoning are difficult if not impossible to detect. Eventually, lead will result in end stage renal disease, high blood pressure, and hyperuricemia (possibly causing gout). The problem is that routine screening tests such as urine dipstick, urinalysis, and blood tests of kidney function will not show kidney disease until 2/3 of the kidney function is lost.

REPRODUCTIVE: Because of the following effects, OSHA recommends blood lead levels of less than 30 ug lead / dl blood in men and women whom wish to bear children.

MALE: Lead levels above 40 ug lead / dl blood can cause decreased sexual drive, impotence, decreased sperm production, malformed and dysfunctional sperm.

FEMALE:

MENSES (periods): Lead can cause abnormal periods, heavy blood flow or cause periods to stop happening.

FERTILITY: Lead can cause sterility, premature births, miscarriages, and stillbirths.

EGGS: Genetic and other damage con occur leading to failure to implant in the uterus, miscarriage, still birth and birth defects.

FETUS: Lead does cross the placenta as early as 12-14 weeks of gestation, but direct effects on the fetus are not well understood at this time. Certainly the neurologic effects do occur and are the most concerning. Hyperactivity can occur at blood levels of 25 ug lead / dl blood and levels of 50-60 can cause neurobehavioral impairments.

OTHER: Hypertension has been found in those whom work around lead in their job. Thyroid, blood vessel, EKG and other endocrine problems have been associated with lead poisoning, but are not well studied to date.

RISKS TO SPECIFIC AGES: All of the above are self explanatory and apply to all ages. Children are more sensitive to the neurologic effects due to their rapidly developing nervous system, while adults are more susceptible to the gastrointestinal effects. Many adults feel they are not at risk, but this is not true.

LEAD METABOLISM: When swallowed, adults absorb about 10% and children absorb about 40% of lead. Approximately 90% of inhaled lead is absorbed. Once in the blood stream, 99% of the lead is bound to red blood cells, while 1% is available to other tissues. Over time 95% of the lead is deposited in bone. Lead in the blood is excreted from the body for 6 or so months after ingestion, then the rest remains, while lead in the bone can remain for life. The average daily intake of lead through normal environmental sources is 0.2 mg and the body can handle up to 0.6 mg per day. As the amount of intake increases above this, the lead starts to accumulate. If you ingested 2.5 mg per day, it would take about 4 years to reach toxic levels. The amount of lead you can tolerate over this decreases exponentially, so that only 3.5 mg per day can cause toxicity within a few months. The average wad cutter .177 lead pellet is 7.5 grains or 487 milligrams or 812 times the amount your body can handle without starting to accumulate lead (1 gram = 15.432 grains, 1000 mg = 1 gram, 0.6 mg is upper limit for tolerance). The 0.6 mg works out to about one thousandth of the pellet. Since this is the smallest pellet, you can see how much more the other caliber pellets contain and how little it takes to cause poisoning.

NON-GUN SOURCES OF LEAD

LEADED GASOLINE: The reduction of lead in gasoline has been the most important factor in reducing by four fold the population average blood lead level over the past several decades. Leaded gasoline is still available and inhalation by adolescents trying to get high (huffing gasoline) still causes some cases of lead poisoning. Since there has been a major shift to unleaded gasoline, the percent of kids between 1-5 years with elevated blood lead levels went from 88% in 1976 to 4 % in 1991.

LEADED PAINT: This is currently the most important risk factor for children. Ingesting paint chips, while a definite source of lead poisoning, is not as common a cause of poisoning as the inhalation of lead in house dust created by deteriorating lead paint or remodeling. Lead was widely used in paint, but its use was stopped after 1978 in the USA. The older the house, the more likely you have lead based paint. For example, 85% of houses built before 1978 have lead paint, while houses built before 1950 have a higher risk of lead poisoning due to deterioration. Lead control and removal is too large a topic to cover in this article, but I will touch on it briefly below (section 6)

WORKPLACE: Certainly I would expect those whom work around lead to know that fact and take precautions as outline by OSHA rules. If you work with metal, paint removal, grinding metal or paint and you are unsure if you are working with lead, then talk with your employer or coworkers.

HOBBIES: This is an uncommonly thought of source that has caused many causes of lead poisoning. Often, since we don’t think of the hobby as a source and are not properly screened, we must wait until signs of lead poisoning show up to find these cases, but in some cases the damage is irreversible. Lead is found in certain ceramic glazes (home made pottery), stained glass (the channel holding it and the solder), lead figures, some jewelry, leaded crystal, and pewter.

OTHER: Some supplements, herbal and other home remedies (especially Chinese herbal medicine) have been found to have high lead levels and some children have actually died from lead poisoning from this source. There are isolated reports of lead being used to repair things that contain food, thus the lead has contaminated the food and lead to food poisoning. There is also lead in artist paint pigments, ashes and fumes of burned painted wood, home battery manufacture, jewelers waste, lead type and illegally distilled alcohol (they commonly use radiators, condensers and other components soldered with lead). Cheap imported window blinds and some imported toys occasionally are found to contain high amounts of lead also.

GUN RELATED SOURCES OF LEAD: This one is fairly obvious in that we use lead bullets and lead pellets. There are sources you may not be aware of such as, lead based chemicals used in the primers and lead dust being produced in indoor ranges. Workers who clean indoor ranges and work inside the range can inhale enough lead to get lead poisoning. For firearms, there are jacketed bullets and zinc bullets, but this is not a viable option for airguns.

HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY:

NON-GUN RELATED SOURCES: After reading this article, you should look for sources and take the appropriate precautions. I think most of these are self explanatory in that you should remove the source. Lead abatement is beyond the scope of this article and you should consult your doctor, local health department or local government for information on proper lead removal (abatement). If you work around lead, then you should already be aware of what you should do or you should contact OSHA for information.

FIREARM RELATED SOURCES: Shoot outside or only in indoor ranges with appropriate ventilation systems. You can inhale lead from the gunpowder smoke (actually the primer smoke) and from the lead aerosolized when it hits metal. If you work in an indoor range, then follow OSHA guidelines for cleaning (wear protective clothing, wear appropriate and fitted air filtration masks, wet the dust when removing it and cleaning out the slugs and wash hands and face before eating, drinking or touching children).Wearing a OSHA approved and properly fitted dust mask for the purpose of lead protection may give you more protection when firing frequently in an indoor range. Unless you go to the range a lot or the range does not have the required ventilation system, then masks are probably unnecessary. Those who make their own bullets, should follow OSHA guidelines regarding lead vapor (I found at least one report of a death from an untrained person not following guidelines making lead figures in his kitchen).

AIRGUN RELATED SOURCES:

Do not make your own pellets unless you follow OSHA guidelines regarding lead or at least work in a very well ventilated area and wear appropriate and fitted air filtration equipment.

When handling pellets, do not eat, drink or touch your or your children’s mouth, eyes, or nose.

Wearing cheap disposable medical gloves while handling the pellets or even a fingercot may keep the lead off of your fingers, but I would still make sure not to touch your mouth, eyes, nose, children or food with the gloved hand that may contain lead dust. Gloves are a little bit of overkill, but certainly can help so long as you don’t ignore the other precautions outline here.

After you are done touching the pellets and your guns, wash and rinse your face and hands thoroughly. Remember the smallest airgun pellet (wad cutter .177) contains 812 times the amount of lead your body can dispose of in a day. If you cannot wash your hands for some reason right away, then using a disposable wetnap or handiwipe is an acceptable alternative (but I would still wash my hands before eating)

Do not work on your airgun or place the pellets where food is consumed or prepared unless you thoroughly clean the area afterwards.

Make sure to remove all pellets from where a small child could find and ingest one. The smallest pellet contains 116 times the amount a child’s body can handle and potentially could be fatal (.177 wad cutter, 40% of ingested lead absorbed by children, 0.6 mg upper daily limit). For example, taking only 8 times the proper dose of acetaminophen (Tylenol) can be fatal.

I could not find any reports of lead toxicity in an airgunner or a family member in which the appropriate precautions were taken.

When shooting indoors, avoid using metallic pellet traps in living areas. I could not find any information regarding lead dust or lead aerosolization from lead pellets fired from airguns at metallic targets but it seems prudent to assume that some is produced. Remember the most common source of lead poisoning in children is inhaled lead dust created from deteriorating old lead based paint (not eating the paint chips). Lead dust is easily produced by firearms due to the energy involved and some airguns produce close to a 22 LR bullet energy. It seems prudent to use ballistic putty, phone book or similar traps in living areas instead of metallic traps. I found one case report of large amount of lead dust around a metallic trap after extensive use indoors with a higher power airgun, but this clearly needs further study.

Do not burn targets or traps or anything that could possibly contain lead as you can inhale enough lead in the fumes to get toxicity. This is one of the reasons you are not supposed to burn colored newspapers since lead is used in the inks.

Smokers should be aware that the lead dust on their fingers will find its way to the cigarettes they hold and the lead dust can then find its way into the mouth. Therefore, you should refrain from smoking or handling cigarettes (pipe, cigar, etc) until you have washed your hands.

CONSIDERATIONS FOR LEAD TESTING

SYMPTOMS OF LEAD TOXICITY: If you have any of these, consult your doctor as soon as is appropriate. Make sure to tell your doctor you handle lead, as most of the following symptoms are not specific to lead poisoning. Your doctor will most likely place lead poisoning at the bottom of his or her list as a likely cause of most of these symptoms unless you tell him or her of your exposure.

GENERAL: weakness, fatigue, irritability, restlessness, depression, insomnia, sleep disturbances, apathy.

NEUROLOGIC: developmental delays and hyperactivity in children (all others in adults and children), muscle tremors, weakness, wrist or foot drop, headache, vertigo, poor memory, stupor, hallucinations, delirium, seizures and coma.

GASTROINTESTINAL: metallic taste in the mouth, constipation (early), diarrhea, abdominal pain, gas spasm type pain, anorexia, nausea and vomiting.

REPRODUCTIVE: Males may have decreases sexual desire, impotence and sterility. Females may have abnormal periods, miscarriages or sterility.

HOW TO GET TESTED: Blood testing currently must be ordered by a physician or other health care provider. There are tests that just involve a simple fingerstick and those that you must have drawn from the arm (less than a teaspoon or 5ml is required). Most local labs do not perform the test, but rather send the specimen out to a reference lab. The results should be available in less than a week. If the lead level is less than 10, then your doctor may tell you it was normal and not to worry. Please ask for the number the lab reported. The testing lab may not be able to report that no lead was found due to the inherent nature of the lab equipment, but rather will report the lowest amount as <2 ug / dl. When I see a result of <2 ug / dl, I tell my patients none was detected. When the amount is between 2 and 10, I ask the patient to repeat the test in 3 to 6 months to make sure the amount does not increase. If the level is above 10, then your doctor will have a long talk with you regarding the further evaluation and treatment required (there are standard protocols to follow and these change periodically, therefore I won’t cover them in depth here). If you have the fingerstick test, then please make sure you have not handled a lead pellet recently and have washed your hands many times thoroughly before the test is performed and ask them to stick the finger you are least likely to have touched a pellet with (or ask for the regular blood test). If you are considering having a child in the near future, then your blood lead level should be 30 or less and you should discuss this with your doctor.

HOW TO TEST YOUR ENVIRONMENT:

Water: There are test kits available at local home improvement stores to test the water. The most accurate kits involve sending a water sample to a reference lab. If your plumbing was installed by a professional after 1956, then you should be safe, but the test only costs a few dollars.

Paint: There are several ways to test the paint, from sending in paint scrapings to a lab to a special meter that is placed over the paint and can actually tell if there is lead present without destroying the paint. In West Virginia, the state will test your house for free (but only if a household member is found to have lead poisoning). Check with your local government agencies to find out how to test your paint. Lead paint for household use was outlawed in the USA after 1978, but some could be around or could be imported without customs finding it.

Dust: Dust samples can be tested by reference labs. I heard about swipes that change color if they touch lead, but I do not know enough about them to comment at this time.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR: The author is a graduate of the West Virginia University School of Medicine, completed a residency in Pediatrics at the Charleston Area Medical Center in Charleston WV, is Board Certified in Pediatrics, is a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics (FAAP), is an Assistant Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the West Virginia University School of Medicine, is on several hospital and insurance company committees, has been featured in a nationally circulated video on immunizations, has appeared in numerous local television broadcast regarding childhood health, has been in private practice in Charleston WV since 1992, and is designated by the Federal Aviation Administration as an Aviation Medical Examiner. The author maintains a web site at http://www.babymd.net. The author is an avid airgunner, enjoys wood working and paramotoring (paragliding with a motor) and to date has four children. You may reach the author via e-mail at Joe.Matusic@Camc.org

REFERENCES:
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR)
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) web site
National Institute for Health (NIH) web site
Nelsons Pediatrics (latest edition)
The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 9th ed, Goodman & Gilman’s
Lead is not something to take lightly. Respect it and take proper precautions or you risk becoming one of the "poster children" that are used to demonstrate how irresponsible individuals can not be trusted and require more regulations and laws that impact our activities in a negative manner.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:11 pm
by nglitz
Lots of people like to wildly exaggerate any possible hazard to make themselves feel important. Lead is the least of our worries in air pistol or rifle shooting. Lead dust is heavy enough that it falls like rocks to the ground. Even dry sweeping won't make it fly through the air.

Don't eat the pellets and you'll be fine.

Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:12 pm
by Isabel1130
I shoot in the house. One cat hates it. The other two are fine with it.
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Re: Anyone shoot in their house?

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:09 pm
by SPPcoach
nglitz wrote:Lots of people like to wildly exaggerate any possible hazard to make themselves feel important.
Curious. So by "lots" you are referring to industrial hygienists, doctors, the NRA, the ISSF, USA Shooting (SOP manual) and individuals that have contributed to this threadby sharing that their blood was tested and shown to have elevated lead levels.
If you have read any "wild exagerations" please point them out.
And the motivation for sharing this information on this forum is not to keep our sport safe and our participants informed but "to make themselves important."
Have a nice day and stay safe.