TargetTalk

PS. you do have to narrow your choice down and make sure that the pistol that you are looking for has an adequate repair service. For example, here in the US if you are going to buy a Match Guns you are on your own if something breaks. You do need to ask around especially when there is no official importer.

The guy is trying to get something decent but cheap.

Why are you guys trying to foist pricey top-of-the-line guns off on him?

You know from your own experience that when you "moved up" your scores did NOT.

Actually, mine did. I went from a Walther LP3 (SSP) to a Walther CP1 (CO2). I don't know how much was the improved ergonomics & how much was being able to concentrate more on actually just shooting (instead of cocking & shooting). That was almost 30 years ago, so I don't remember the details. All I know is that after getting the CP1, I shot my all time personal best (~575), and won the State air pistol championship.

Going from the CP1 to a Morini didn't produce a similar improvement, but with a Hill pump, I don't have to mess with tanks & hydrotesting. Also, Walther stopped supporting the CP1, and I couldn't get replacement parts.

I did the same thing, but sold the LP3 out of sheer frustration (it was really just a toy).

"Going from the CP1 to a Morini didn't produce a similar improvement."

I told you so!

I wouldn't consider the LP3 a "toy". I could shoot it just as well as a FWB 65. In the US, it suffered from being sold with cheap plastic grips, but Walther had nice ergonomic walnut grips for it in Europe, and I got a set of those. I also didn't like the default sight width, and got a better front blade as well.

As for the CP1 vs the Morini, clamped in a vise, they are both equally accurate. The same can be said for most decent air pistols. The issue becomes convenience & ergonomics, which are much harder to quantify. if I had it all to do over, I would get a Steyr, not because that's what all the top shooters use, but because of the adjustable grip angle (which might be why the top shooters like them...). Put the same features on a CO2 gun, and it would be fine, EXCEPT that it's much easier to deal with SCUBA tanks than a CO2 tank. Or better still, get a hand pump.

conradin wrote:If you do plan to stay in the sport for a long time, you are better off buying the current high grade pistols. You can go to Egun.de and can easily find a pistol of your choice very cheaply.

Agree but with reservations.

If you're serious about your shooting then your gear should reflect that. You do not have to go top of the line but, with few exceptions, you get what you pay for. Save your money and opt for a good "starter" system that can carry you for a long time. I'd suggest two options, each in a different style, but you probably won't outgrow them anytime soon.

Baikal IZH 46M, new or used, with the upgraded trigger (new are getting scarce due to restrictions from Russia).

FAS 604 used (tough to find) or its replacement, the FAS 6004 available from Airguns of Arizona.

If you can come up with $4-500, the FWB 65 or 80 is really fine target pistol.

I was beginning to get friendly feelings toward the FAS 6004, maybe to have one for guests who might like to try AP. Then I read the manual and found there to be no dryfire capability. Sorry guys, but dryfire is too important a part of training / practice, and without it the prep time at a match is mostly a waste of time. Makes a used TAU-7 with one of Doug White's dryfire adaptors a more and more attractive option.

william wrote:.......and without it the prep time at a match is mostly a waste of time.

Do you mean the 15 minutes combined preparation & sighting time, or the 15 minutes set-up time before that?

If you're worried that not being able to dry-fire during the set-up time then maybe the 6004 isn't the gun for you.

BTW, if the 6004 is the same as the 604 then opening to about 30 degrees and then closing it will actually set the trigger but not charge the cylinder, so you can dry fire.

"Do you mean the 15 minutes combined preparation & sighting time, or the 15 minutes set-up time before that?'

I mean any and all of the time when release of gas (something at which I sometimes suspect our old Rover excels) is either forbidden or will count as a shot. Last match I shot, the young man on the position to my left dryfired several shots every time he put his pistol down - changing targets, etc. My guess is he did about 20-30 dryfire shots during the match, to say nothing of pre-match. I find it a good way to settle back in after - for example - a trip to the loo.

william wrote:I was beginning to get friendly feelings toward the FAS 6004.... Then I read the manual and found there to be no dryfire capability....

Like David said. Just unlatch and raise the top until you hear the 'click' of the trigger setting. Simple, easy, and quick.

Chiappa makes sure to post this in the manual:

ANY LEGAL DISPUTE WILL BE UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF A COURT IN THE
STATE OF OHIO - USA, OR IN THE COURT OF BRESCIA - ITALY, AT OUR DISCRETION

but can't include one short sentence to describe the dryfire procedure. Perhaps you understand my previous statement? I happily stand corrected.

This thread might have drifted a bit away from the original question: Cheapest 10m competition pistol on the market.

Of course, technically that would be the cheapest .177 pistol that conforms to the rules (e.g. fits in the dimension box, 500g trigger, etc.).

There's a lot of advice to "buy the best, since that's what you'll eventually want". That's good advice, but it also assumes that the person will like 10m competition and will keep up with it. The readership of this forum is not a good sample, because we obviously have kept interest. We've got to respect the needs of people who (a) are just in it for fun, or (b) might not like the sport and might drop out and who might wish to do so without too much expense along the way.

My first 3 or 4 matches I shot with a Crosman 2300 S that I had (it uses the CO2 powerlets, more on that later). It's got an adjustable trigger (which is pretty rough), a good barrel that gives good accuracy **from a rest** (mostly 10's with an occasional random 9). The ergonomics aren't very good, and the excellent Williams sight it came with had to be switched for a smaller LPA mim sight because the Williams was too big for the box. Pros - never have to worry about trigger passing 500g test, even on minimum setting. Looks cool. Fun to work the action (it's a mini bolt-action). Cons - ergonomics not anywhere in the same league as any competitive 10m pistol. Powerlets only good for about 40 shots, so you have to arrange with the range officer in advance that you'll change the powerlet mid-match. Trigger is rough. But anyway, it's fun, and cheap (they're about $270 new these days), and I'd say that the Crosman 2300 T is an even better value, because it comes stock with the LPA sight so it'll fit in the ISSF box in its stock configuration, and it's cheaper ($190). So I'd not hesitate to recommend the Crosman 2300T for someone who wants to try 10m "on the cheap".

After my first few matches I decided I wanted to score more points. I bought an IZH-46M. It came the day before a match, I shot it about 20 times in the garage and took it to the match. You know how people say you can't buy points? Well, you can - if your scores are low enough and if your gun is 'rough' enough. So my switch from the 2300S to the 46M took me from 465 (my high score with the Crosman) to 490 (first score with the Izzy). I don't practice very much (usually about 20-30 shots at a time every other week or so at 5m on a reduced target), but with the Izzy (and the Rink grips that I got for them - that was a great move) I'm consistently in the 510s. I also got a Walther LP400 which I really like. I've never shot a match with it though, because my son mostly uses it.

Don't pay much heed to my scores - I'll attribute them to my inconsistent and less-than-ideal practicing habits. The guns can do their part, though. For example, one of the matches I was in had a final, and with the Crosman I shot an 87 (which I guess is decent for a new shooter), and with the Izzy I shot a 97 string in a match once (shots 1-10) - but that was followed immediately by a 2 on the 11th shot (which is the kind of thing that keeps my scores in the 510s, I guess).

Anyway, I guess all this is to say that the barrier to entry to 10m competition isn't as high as some seem to think. I guess it depends on the shooter's expectations. I just want to do my best and have fun. As far as the fun part goes, that again depends on the shooter. For me, the Crosman and the Izzy are equally fun, and I find them plenty enjoyable to shoot because there's a lot of manual participation with each shot.

Slightly fascinated by the combination of the cheapest airpistol available firing the cheapest pellets available. The route to improve scores?

As the original poster said: "so i should change the question the cheapest pistol available that is worth buying"

The answer appears to be the Chiappa 6004, or a used CO2 gun, or FWB 65.

In my pellet tests, the cheap RWS Basic performed so well I use them as a match pellet.

I guess he should pick something.

OK, the best shooting, cheapest gun that performs well for 10M shooting is the Daisy 717. I used to shoot one in competition. It is capable of shooting some respectable scores.

Weihrauch HW70a, a cheaper version of the FWB65 if you cannot afford to get one. Cost around $250.

conradin wrote:Weihrauch HW70a, a cheaper version of the FWB65 if you cannot afford to get one. Cost around $250.

This statement can't be left alone. The HW70 is a recoiling plinker that has nothing in common with the FWB65 except caliber. Do not buy it for 10M shooting.