TargetTalk

JamesH wrote:An airgun cylinder supposedly has as much embodied energy as a stick of dynamite - is it really such a chore to change cylinders every ten years?

I think you have confused an air cylinder with one of these.

JamesH wrote:For an average ~$10/year I just don't see that its a big deal

Indeed. Considering that the competitions that care about cylinder age typically have entry fees that cost about the same as a new cylinder the "age limit is a ploy to sell more cylinders" conspiracy theory doesn't add up.

It doesn't affect the vast majority of shooters because they're either a) not shooting at competitions where cylinder age is checked or b) spending so much money on other shooting costs that one cylinder per decade is a tiny amount.

I know of one cylinder that failed in the boot (trunk) of a car and blew the boot lid open.

It was a CO2 cylinder on a hot day whilst the car was being driven to a competition, this was in the early 1990s when CO2 cylinders were the norm.

I will not mention the (well known) make but their cylinders appeared to have screwed on end caps which may have contributed to the failure.

Brian Girling wrote:I know of one cylinder that failed in the boot (trunk) of a car and blew the boot lid open.

It was a CO2 cylinder on a hot day whilst the car was being driven to a competition, this was in the early 1990s when CO2 cylinders were the norm.

I will not mention the (well known) make but their cylinders appeared to have screwed on end caps which may have contributed to the failure.

I have had FEG CO2 cylinders 'blow' in the car on a really hot day, but this has been 'failure' of the O-ring that seals the steel body to the brass fitting - somewhat surprizing to he driver, but definitely not catastrophic.
The pistol was in a gun case and other than a busted O-ring there was no damage to other items

Never a dull moment in this sport, eh, Spencer?

Just to confound the masses:

http://store.chiappafirearms.com/produc ... rd-pp.html

Rover wrote:Never a dull moment in this sport, eh, Spencer?

Fortunately, the loud whoosh from the back of the vehicle came just as I pulled up at the range - 5 or 10 minutes earlier when I was on the freeway might have been interesting.

Just to make one point, never, EVER, EVER, under any circumstance, fill your cylinder with pure oxygen. Like the kind in green tanks used for breathing. It's a death ride and will harm you and your gun.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/?s=pure+ ... rch=Search

Never had a tank explode, but a controlled air release bans them at the Colorado Springs airport.....

It's good for me...is HAS to be good for the gun. Right?

I saw a phot of a Anschutz 2002 air cylinder [steel] that had split apart after it exploded, I'm not sure of the details but I believe the owner was injured. It was featured in a British shooting mag a few years ago now. I also believe there was a recall on that particular batch by Anschutz. Not sure how accurate this is, but the exploded cylinder was for real, it looked like a pipe bomb had exploded.

JSBmatch wrote:I saw a phot of a Anschutz 2002 air cylinder [steel] that had split apart after it exploded, I'm not sure of the details but I believe the owner was injured. It was featured in a British shooting mag a few years ago now. I also believe there was a recall on that particular batch by Anschutz. Not sure how accurate this is, but the exploded cylinder was for real, it looked like a pipe bomb had exploded.

Finally someone has brought up the one catastrophic failure that I've heard of, and it's actually a poster child for why the 10-year rule is so stupid. I don't have the exact details either, but it was discussed at the time on TT. From what I remember, a single batch of Anschutz rifle cylinders were subject to failure and were immediately recalled.

Here's the important thing: they failed just months after being manufactured. Not 10+ years due to metal fatigue, but a couple of months due to faulty manufacture. And somehow this event apparently led to the institution of the 10-year rule, which - and it hardly needs saying - deals with an entirely different and (up till now) totally hypothetical danger.

Are all rules and laws related to guns destined to be irrelevant feel-good measures? Can anyone deal with problems in this area using real evidence and common sense?

Sorry for the rant.

FredB

JSBmatch wrote:I saw a phot of a Anschutz 2002 air cylinder [steel] that had split apart after it exploded, I'm not sure of the details but I believe the owner was injured. It was featured in a British shooting mag a few years ago now. I also believe there was a recall on that particular batch by Anschutz. Not sure how accurate this is, but the exploded cylinder was for real, it looked like a pipe bomb had exploded.

the Anschuetz flyer is at http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/download ... ?downloads

Sooo...what happens to the "new" cylinders sitting on the dealers shelves?

Retailers and/or distributors 'eat' them, as it were. I doubt the manufacturers are going to give refunds on unsold cylinders.

fredB Its the ISSF being their usual illogical self, playing safe as best I can describe it. My Walther cylinder is coming up 7 years old, 3 to go I'm informed before it needs replacing. Now consider this, the cylinder is regulated to 300 Bar, but I have never filled over 200 Bar, would this extend its life span?

JSBmatch wrote:Now consider this, the cylinder is regulated to 300 Bar, but I have never filled over 200 Bar, would this extend its life span?

Are we really going to go over all of the same old arguments again.

ISSF are simply adopting the same 10 year limit as apply to all of the European manufacturers under European law.

David Levene wrote:

JSBmatch wrote:Now consider this, the cylinder is regulated to 300 Bar, but I have never filled over 200 Bar, would this extend its life span?

Are we really going to go over all of the same old arguments again.

ISSF are simply adopting the same 10 year limit as apply to all of the European manufacturers under European law.

So why doesn't this law apply to non-10M PCPs made by the same European manufacturers (and others)?

FredB wrote:

David Levene wrote:

JSBmatch wrote:Now consider this, the cylinder is regulated to 300 Bar, but I have never filled over 200 Bar, would this extend its life span?

Are we really going to go over all of the same old arguments again.

ISSF are simply adopting the same 10 year limit as apply to all of the European manufacturers under European law.

So why doesn't this law apply to non-10M PCPs made by the same European manufacturers (and others)?

Are you saying that it doesn't?

As far as I'm aware they all have to put a maximum 10 year validity on their cylinders.

David Levene wrote:

FredB wrote:

David Levene wrote:
ISSF are simply adopting the same 10 year limit as apply to all of the European manufacturers under European law.

So why doesn't this law apply to non-10M PCPs made by the same European manufacturers (and others)?

Are you saying that it doesn't?

As far as I'm aware they all have to put a maximum 10 year validity on their cylinders.

Yes, I am saying that it doesn't. I have not seen a single European non-10M PCP that has any indication on it of a 10 year validity. The couple of guns that I own do not mention anything of the sort in their manuals. If someone can cite an example of date marking on these guns or in their manuals, then of course I'm wrong. But I've asked on TT for examples a couple of times with no response.

If there is no marking on the gun or the manual indicating a maximum 10 year validity, for all practical purposes there is no such limitation.

FredB wrote:

David Levene wrote:

FredB wrote:

David Levene wrote:
ISSF are simply adopting the same 10 year limit as apply to all of the European manufacturers under European law.

So why doesn't this law apply to non-10M PCPs made by the same European manufacturers (and others)?

Are you saying that it doesn't?

As far as I'm aware they all have to put a maximum 10 year validity on their cylinders.

Yes, I am saying that it doesn't. I have not seen a single European non-10M PCP that has any indication on it of a 10 year validity. The couple of guns that I own do not mention anything of the sort in their manuals. If someone can cite an example of date marking on these guns or in their manuals, then of course I'm wrong. ........

http://www.weihrauch-sport.de/seiten/en ... inder.html