Hold...hold...hold

[Russ]

I'm sure you have read this word a few time in different sources (books). I will give you a clue... NRA: The Basic of Pistol Shooting (Pg. 81). The simplification of asking me what the word is will not provide the same value of meaning in which each of us have on a perceptional level. You missed this word several times and chose to explain the same concept in a longer sentence. It means that you have an idea, but this idea (concept) is not properly working for you.

[bwwaaaa]

There is one key word to describe the stance and concept at the same time.

And that word is ....????

Oh you won't get it out of him. Russ only responds in cryptic remarks more akin to a spiritual guru than a helpful teacher.

Edit: Ah! See!

[Russ]

Russ also responds on phone calls,e-mails and PM :)))

"Helpful teacher"

A helpful teacher is committed to a responsible student. I do not have unfulfilled obligations to my students in my knowledge.

[Russ]

My dear friends, the ugly truth is: if you do not pursue the highest possible score in Olympic style target shooting, you will miss much of they key words and clues. I do not have time to explain all those important details to unqualified Olympic pistol owners.
Who is qualified? The person who has a goal, plan, and who is ready to take action to achieve this goal!
Key concept is: (GOAL, PLAN, ACTION).

[jackh]

"I do not have time to explain all those important details to unqualified Olympic pistol owners. "

Shame

[Russ]

"Mixed emotions, buddy"

There is no shame to be an Olympic pistol collector (I am an Olympic pistol owner).
There is no shame to be an Olympic pistol recreational shooter (Olympic pistol owners). I'm an Olympic pistol recreational shooter.

There is no shame to value your time by QUALIFYING your students and separating someone who does not have a DESIRE to set a GOAL, to make a PLAN, and to Take ACTION toward executing a plan on the way toward achieving their own dream.

It is extremely important to initially understand; what is the value of your step on the road toward purchasing an Olympic style pistol.

There are some options available (according to NRA sources) when purchasing firearms:
Hunting, collecting, competing, personal protection, recreational shooting.

If it is OK for NRA, why should you be ashamed when using the same options besides Hunting and personal protection?

P.S.
One more thing about qualification and SHAME.

Qualification or the selection process is one of the coach’s duties to select the best possible option to build a strong team.
And competitions will show who is who.
Do not be ashamed to be prepared with the best possible options before the match or competition with knowledge, skills and the fine tool; your Olympic pistol (optional) :)

[jackh]

No. Shame on you for your statement I quoted. You write many words to impress us with your coaching ability. No doubt, you are quite good. But to suddenly not share one little item, and to say you have no time for the unqualified......shame.

[Russ]

This word is only important to you because you have knowledge and you are prepared to receive this information.
I picked your own statement, and I like it. Others can have different levels of knowledge and related problems, but if there no willingness to excel, then there is nothing I can do to help.

[ColinC]

Dev,
I hope you stopped reading after your last reply and have been concentrating on developing your mind to minimise the intrusion of random thoughts. This thread has certainly degenerated into some ego bashing and chest beating of which none of us should be proud.
When shooting, if you eliminate the random thoughts you can concentrate on your sight picture and your scores will improve.
If you can dry fire, practice that as well and your slow, steady pull will eventually become something your subconscience takes care of while you concentrate on the sights.
It is not rocket science but some people think you have to be able to shoot 590 before imparting a little bit of practical advice.

[Russ]

Sorry guys, sometimes I’m not politically correct. I’m disappointed about those artificial identities and artificial problems. Also, I’m disappointed in the attempts to heal symptoms instead taking care of real causes. Not too many people are really interested to find out what the real problem is, but they are eager to show own smartness.

[David Levene]

Sorry guys, sometimes I’m not politically correct.

The problem is Russ that your attitude often comes over as looking down on those you consider to be hobby shooters or "Olympic pistol recreational shooters".

What is the point of saying, in effect, "there is a key word but unless you prove you are serious (by paying?) I'm not going to tell you what it is".

I have absolutely no problem with someone charging for their coaching services, but we have to respect the grass-roots of the sport. The wider the base of the pyramid, the higher the pinnacle can be built. Those at the base need to be encouraged as this will lead to an increasing number requiring your services.

(Preach mode off)

[Russ]

David, I do not advertise here, but I did. I’m not asking any one to use my service. There are no strings attached.
I’m not “looking down on those you consider to be hobby shooters or "Olympic pistol recreational shooters"
I went on this road by my own, and I am trying to save someone’s dreams, efforts, sources and energy, by paying attention on toward the big goal. One can gain a more enjoyable journey and benefits to have the same hobby, but for a different aspiration.

[bwwaaaa]

David, I do not advertize here, but I did. I’m not asking to use my service. There are no strings attached.
I’m not “looking down on those you consider to be hobby shooters or "Olympic pistol recreational shooters".”
I went this road by my own, and I am trying to save someone’s dream, efforts, sources and energy, by paying attention on big goal. One can gain more enjoyable journey and benefits to have same hobby but different aspiration.

Why not divulge all information to anyone that asks? If the asker is just another one of those "collectors" or "recreational shooters" that you so despise, the information won't benefit him regardless.

I thought forums were about sharing information, not flaunting your personal elitism over the masses. You're like the older sibling who holds the smaller child's toy over his head while taunting him. "Hahah, you can't have it until you're big like me!"

[Russ]

Why not divulge all information to anyone that asks? If the asker is just another one of those "collectors" or "recreational shooters" that you so despise, the information won't benefit him regardless.

I thought forums were about sharing information, not flaunting your personal elitism over the masses. You're like the older sibling who holds the smaller child's toy over his head while taunting him. "Hahah, you can't have it until you're big like me!"

Since this forum is a free source and I’m not in a charge to answer all of the questions, can I have the pleasure to answer those questions which I can choose? It can be a satisfying and brainstorming experience for me as well. ;)

[luftskytter]

Sometimes Internet forums get a bit frustrating.

I guess what's really being said between the lines in this thread is that if we are honest, we all know the answer to these "how to improve" questions that pop up.
Me too: I don't shoot very well, I've had ups and downs, but have improved a bit recently. The reason for this is more and better practice.
It's about discipline and attending to my weak points. And it's about concentrating on my mental discipline. I compete every now and then on a basic level, but my most challenge is improving to shoot at a level that I find satisfying: I don't like to say I'm competing AGAINST myself :-)

And there's no magic formula or secret to shooting better.
Books, forums and coaches may give me some useful hints, and maybe debug some details in your style, but mainly there's a job to be done. I guess my most important message to myself is: try to have fun and enjoy whatever you need to do to shoot better.

[bwwaaaa]

Why not divulge all information to anyone that asks? If the asker is just another one of those "collectors" or "recreational shooters" that you so despise, the information won't benefit him regardless.

I thought forums were about sharing information, not flaunting your personal elitism over the masses. You're like the older sibling who holds the smaller child's toy over his head while taunting him. "Hahah, you can't have it until you're big like me!"

Since this forum is free source and I’m not in charge to answer all questions, can I have pleasure to answer those questions which I can choose? It can be satisfying and brainstorming experience for me too. ;)

A perfectly reasonable request.

But it seems you spend so much time writing out your responses, which obviously have a fair bit of thought and editing involved, but so say so little. Looking back at your post history we can find numerous long, flowing responses, with absolutely no valuable information in them at all.

Yes answer the questions you choose to answer, but if you're going to spend 5 minutes on a reply, why not make it worth while to read?

[Russ]

Yes answer the questions you choose to answer, but if you're going to spend 5 minutes on a reply, why not make it worth while to read?

What if it is not 5 minutes, but 8 to 10 hours to overhaul all your previous concepts and details?

But it seems you spend so much time writing out your responses, which obviously have a fair bit of thought and editing involved, but so say so little. Looking back at your post history we can find numerous long, flowing responses, with absolutely no valuable information in them at all.

I erased the most valuable part of my posts after an unpleasant discussion with some photographer. So, there is not too much in my history left any more.
We can start over with all respect possible from all parties involved.

[Dev]

I have actually been on this forum for atleast five or eight years. In fact I remember the encouragement and tips that I received in 1989 when I first picked up the air pistol. Actually the attitude of the Delhi State Rifle Association and the NRAI would put me off and I would again leave shooting.
After my daughter's sudden demise at seven I lost my bearings in the virtual world and actually forgot about this wonderful forum till I found it again some two years or so ago.
What I have known this forum for, is shooters of all levels, some at international levels, Olympic levels and all; totally loved to share their techniques and tips. There was no segregation into hobby, arm chair or serious shooters...I am semi-serious and at the national level. From here to the next jump will need a world of improvement.
I choose to learn for free, heck if our record level shooters like Jaspal Rana are willing to coach you for nothing else but a kind word and a handshake, why should I throw money?
I read this forum and noticed how intense the debate was getting yet I didn't feel the need to do anything more than thank all who contributed, as my knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds. It is perfectly fine if there is a secret mantra to zoom me to the next level, great...But I know that by practicing more and concentrating on the basics and some of the generously given free secrets...I will still improve.
That is why I find it okay if some will leave cryptic messages. In the meanwhile I have begun Standard pistol and after my first taste I am in love with it. I will be training with two friends, both are renowned shots in air pistol, one has been struggling with standard pistol for years. Our plan is simple we shoot the state championships, qualify for the pre-nationals and then God willing for the nationals. If we make it there and shoot a 90 score we will be allowed to import .22 LR or .32 pistols. That is the first part of the dream. After that we shall see.
Apologies for the long post but the thread has become so interesting that I am amazed by it.

Blast away :-)

Dev

[Russ]

OK, let’s go back to your initial post….

“, I found that my hand did a strange upward or sideways movement when I was shooting the fourth detail of ten shots. Since I was very alert about the trigger squeeze, I isolated the problem to this whole hand movement.”

Cause of this strange movement can be imperfection of your grip, it can be lack of attention of wrist control, also it can be both.( "I isolated the problem to this whole hand movement.")

“I had stopped doing the holding exercise assuming that my muscles were now suitably trained and had started shooting about eighty scoring shots every alternate day at home.”

Your assumptions are based on your goals and current model of success in what are you currently employing ….. If you are looking for success, you have to change your assumption first… The “holding exercise” is part of the dry fire process… I went to USAS Nationals in 2007 and did 80% of my training by doing only dry fire routines. If you know what you are doing in the dry fire process, it can become an essential part of your training practice. This is why I told you to “Get qualified help if you are serious of your goal” in my first post.

How many of you who are reading this post can’t score on a constant basis of AP570+ or FP 550+ have similar beliefs under the evaluation that the DRY fire process is a boring routine?
These are your current beliefs and each of you who share similar beliefs perform much lower than your own actual ability. You can honor your existing beliefs or you can change it.

Change is a process of your own growth. Current beliefs will keep you comfortable in your own comfort level. The comfort level of your performance is your actual performance. If you look forward to change your performance, you have to adapt to new changes in your current value system (believes). Think about this.
P.S.
Let’s assume someone asked about advice or a tip on this forum.
What if I do not have tips?
My performance runs on the system.
The system gives me consistent scores.
If you do not have the system in your performance, you will have good days and bad days, ups and downs, - no consistent performances. What kind of advice can I provide in this case?
No system in someone's performance is his actual system which one employs, and his current belief is –This system did not ever exist. Is this correct?
Who is talking on this forum about an actual system? No one. Everyone is hungry about tips and worry only about their own comfort level.

I’m still kind of wondering about one question.
Who is a hobby shooter?

Someone is who does not have international level scores?
Or someone who does not have a system in place?
Or someone who does not need a system in place?
Help me with correct the answer.

[bwwaaaa]

I’m still kind of wondering about one question.
Who is hobby shooter?

Someone is who do not have international level scores?
Or someone who does not have system in place?
Or someone who is does not need system in place?
Help me with correct answer.

I would base the distinction on motivation/commitment to their system.

I would say that scores are secondary to work ethic, in that a newer shooter might not have the experience to post world class scores, but his determination to step up his game and get there eventually should make him worthy of your guidance.

If someone isn't willing to put in the time, then even if you answered every one of their questions thoroughly, they wouldn't improve.

Does my opinion agree somewhat with yours?