TargetTalk

What does the beam do?? I mean if the finger is on the trigger the pistol goes BANG. If finger is not on trigger the pistol will not fire anyway.

Is the beam a joke by Cesare Morini, another "invention"?

Kent

Kent:

While the trigger on the 84E is "electronic" the fire control system is more properly termed "electromechanical." The circuit is broken to fire teh gun. The circuit is broken by lifting a contact against spring force. If you set the spring force too light, the gun can be fored by inertia alone. Inertia caused by handling, dropping, tapping, jerking etc. can be sufficient to overcome the spring resistance.

Note that this is also a problem with mechanical trigger systems- albeit an insoluble one, in those cases. Well, I guess you could increase sear engagement (increasing creep) and/or increase force required to disengage the sear. Both of which kind of defeat the purpose.

With the electronic trigger systems, you have another option to prevent unintended discharge. You can block the action of the fire control system electronically, without interfering with the action of the trigger. For example, by adding another circuit, independent of the triggering circuit, to check for a satisfactory operating condition before releasing the shot.

I guess Morini thought "not having a finger inside the trigger guard" would be an unsatisfactory operating condition, while "having a finger inside the trigger guard" pretty much defined "satisfactory operating condition."

Seems pretty slick to some folks.

Of course, to the coal burning Luddites, it's Heresy . . .

(Insert Smileys and Other Emoticons For The Humor Impaired)

Steve Swartz

Sorry Steve,

The question was meant for Mark Briggs.

I know very well the purpose of the beam. I wrote that it could be replaced by a mercury switch that will do a better job. Someone from Morini said in this forum last year that they wanted to use 1,5 volt battery like they have in AP but the beam was so energy consuming so they had to stick to 15 volt. I merely suggested a way out.

Of course, to the coal burning Luddites, it's Heresy . .

I do not quite follow you here but I hope it is funny.

Best regards
Kent

Kent,

To answer your question, your FP-10 will definitely fire unexpectedly, without your finger being anywhere near the trigger, if the sear area is dirty. Keeping it clean is absolutely vital. I have seen an FP-10 fire when the breech was closed. Cleaning it fixed the problem. I've also seen an FP-10 fire when the breech was closed, but this was a result of poor trigger design. After much convincing, Hammerli replaced the trigger with a new one of different design and the trigger has functioned perfectly since. I think the FP-10 got a bad reputation initially because of its poor trigger. The new design (distinguishable from older ones by the presence of roller bearings on 3 rotating shafts, as opposed to bearings on only one or two shafts in earlier designs) works very, very well. A close friend of mine has an FP-10 and I admire it so much that I have convinced him to give me first opportunity to purchase it if he ever decides to sell it. Yes, I would still keep my CM84 and my Hammerli 150. One can never have too many free pistols!

As Steve mentioned, the light beam idea used by Morini is a good one, primarily because it works. You have to have your finger actually ON the trigger or at least very close to it in order for the pistol to be able to fire. I've moved my trigger around in an attempt to find a more comfortable position and suddenly found the gun won't fire - because my finger wasn't completely blocking the light beam. So it's a reasonable conclusion that as safety mechanisms go, the Morini light beam idea works reasonably well. But it still won't prevent unintentional firing caused by dirt in the sear. Steve very accurately described the Morini system as being "electro-mechanical". If the mechanical portion (sear and firing pin) is dirty or malfunctioning, the electronics can't possible fix that or prevent unintentional firing.

The only pistol design that excludes unintentional firing caused by dirt is the obsolete Walther free pistol. This is because it uses a solenoid to drive the firing pin rather than a spring. When the trigger circuit is triggered by the shooter, the solenoid is enegized, driving the firing pin forward to cause the cartridge to fire. If this pistol had something like the Morini light beam safety as well as the solenoid firing it would come very close to eliminating unintentional firing. But I'm sure an inventive shooter would still find some way to cause a bullet to go into the dirt! *grin*

phil wrote:And with a Rink grip, the FP10 is perfect.

off-topic:

"It isn't all gold, that shines"

Look at my new personally made grip by one famous master + "old" toz = may be not so colourful as FP10, but... let's count cool Rink grips in hands of really good shooters.... let's count FP10... :-) aaannnddd what?...
Dear Sirs, grips must be made personally... it was my humble opinion.

Sincerely

I didn't want to say nothing bad in Rink's side... sorry

Dear ruig,

Sure, we all want the perfect grip. I think it is easier to learn how to shoot then to make the perfect grip. We try to start with something that feels good and end up with a destroyed grip. Putty every. It takes many years before we know what we do, if ever.

At least we can buy a new grip and start all over again.
Is starting with a small grip and carefully take away a bit at the time the right way to go?
Perhaps a grip of light wood, easy to carve in and learn how-to-do-it?

Regards
Kent with FP 10

I was very successful modifying my Pardini K70 grip. The Basic technique was to use a Dremel tool with course paper to remove the varnish. I then used body filler (Bondo) as a filler. Starting with the trigger area and moving around to the back of the grip, I applied filler in small areas. My hand was covered with a latex medical glove when I took the grip and waited, about 5 minutes, for the filler to begin setting up.

The material heats by chermical action so don't make any area too thick at one setting. Once it started setting, I removed my hand and used a hobby knife to cut away unwanted areas.

I used this technigue around the entire pistol grip. If the result was unstatisfactory, out came the Dremel tool. The finished product was perfect fit. The grip was primed and finished with a good spray enamel.

My color is grey, certain to induce fear in fellow competitors who retain their pristine wood finished grips.