Shooterer wrote:I've noticed that the only haters of the 6004 are the people that don't have one.
The owners of the pistols knew what they were getting at that price point and are satisfied with their purchase.
I had one and sold it after a few thousand pellets. My issues were it being under powered, pellet diameter issues and a trigger that 90% of the available adjustments created a bad trigger.
It had its high points but the negatives got annoying.
Yes power on these and Gamo Compact is low but still enough to clean cut quality targets at 10 metres if everything else is in spec.
Ironically the trigger on 604/6004 is, I thought, one of its better points. There is a trick to setting these 2 stage triggers. It's only a lack of a trigger backstop on 6004's and later 604's that makes it less easy to set properly but if you get 99% of the sear dis-engagement on first stage and just tip it over the edge with second stage it can be very crisp.
zanemoseley wrote:...I had one and sold it after a few thousand pellets. My issues were it being under powered, pellet diameter issues and a trigger that 90% of the available adjustments created a bad trigger....
I adjusted the trigger on the 6004 that you sold and it dialed in perfectly. It appears the problem was technique related.
The pistol was not under powered. After wetting the piston's felt washer with 25wt pure silicone oil, the velocity was on par with our 604's and it cut clean holes in Kruger targets at 10 meters.
You may have had some problems with pellets, but it wasn't related to their diameter. The breech chamfer was found to be roughly machined which occasionally bit into the skirt of some pellets. This was corrected, and I'll start a new thread later about the process.
I have, after putting my useless, frustrating, leaking FAS 6004 at the back of the wardrobe last year, bought new sets of seals. This is a new pistol that after 500 pellets through it, leaked like crazy. Originally there was just enough power to propel a pellet through it - after a box of pellets through it it was unusable. Taking it apart, the main sliding valve component (aluminium) has an internal finish to the o ring groove that beggars belief! Obviously it is a cnc machined piece that is just rattled off with no inspection or controls to it. Anyway, it is easily taken apart and seals replaced (took about 11/2 hours start to finish to do - 6 seals required). Everything was cleaned, greased, oiled, de-frazed and re-assembled. Then came the proud moment of the first shot at a target. Pffffttt. Exactly as it was before! This pistol cost me £347.50 + £6.00 for the seals. My advice is save your money and buy one of the top class pistols. The FAS will be consigned to the bin where it belongs!
bassplayer wrote:I have, after putting my useless, frustrating, leaking FAS 6004 at the back of the wardrobe last year, bought new sets of seals. This is a new pistol that after 500 pellets through it, leaked like crazy. Originally there was just enough power to propel a pellet through it - after a box of pellets through it it was unusable. Taking it apart, the main sliding valve component (aluminium) has an internal finish to the o ring groove that beggars belief! Obviously it is a cnc machined piece that is just rattled off with no inspection or controls to it. Anyway, it is easily taken apart and seals replaced (took about 11/2 hours start to finish to do - 6 seals required). Everything was cleaned, greased, oiled, de-frazed and re-assembled. Then came the proud moment of the first shot at a target. Pffffttt. Exactly as it was before! This pistol cost me £347.50 + £6.00 for the seals. My advice is save your money and buy one of the top class pistols. The FAS will be consigned to the bin where it belongs!
Hi! The air leak happens when I close the cocking lever either before fully closed or after - you can hear the air leak. It can then leak - not gradually but all at once - whilst just holding the pistol with an audible release of air at different lengths of time from a second to a minute. It just leaks!
Probably someone supplied you with metric o-rings or silicone rings. You didnt answer that specific question.
Get 2 off BS007, 2 off BS610 and 2 off BS115 nitrile 70 rings from Bearingshopuk-eb ebay seller if you are in UK. They are available worldwide. buy them in tens. Rebuild it carefully according to the video. Burnish out any scratches. surgically clean it before lube.
This assumes 604 and 6004 are identical seals but I can't get Chiappa to confirm or even correspond.
That's better! After replacing all the FAS seals again, I put my HW75 in the FAS box, threw the sieve called a FAS 6004 in the bin, and now everything is ok!
I tried to help but you came back with no data I could guide you on. If the second seals were from the same source they were probably too small too. If they were BS sizes (inch fractions) in a clean gun they should have done the job.
I'm not trying to defend them in the least, but such reviews can be a bit misleading. People are WAY more likely to complain than praise a vendor, although it does provide some limited insight into Chiappa's post sales support & gunsmithing.
I've also read scathing negative reviews for other items from people who were clearly either clueless or otherwise at fault. RipOffReports ONLY carries complaints. The ones they have on Chiappa are pretty damning, but it is hardly a total picture of a company.
The place where I discovered this in some detail was shopping for reliable 2 TB computer hard drives. If you read the customer reviews on Amazon & NewEgg, about 20% of the reviews report catastrophic drive failures for almost all major brands. There is a huge on-line data storage outfit that has tens of thousands of hard drives in service, and they track the reliability. They report a failure rate closer to 5% for most drive brands & types. The difference is that most people don't bother to report that their disk drive is working fine, which skews the on-line sales review statistics a LOT.
It is interesting to note that there are no reviews on RipOffReport for either Daisy or Crosman. Given the volume of air guns they have sold over the years, that speaks well of their customer service.
I will present a hug post (sorry for none FAS fans)here in the hope that it might prove helpful to new owners or people planning such a purchase. It is based on my experience of owning one for 2.5 months now but also of someone one who meddles and experiments. My back ground as a highly skilled prototype engineer sometimes causes me more problems than its worth as i cant leave stock stuff alone but hey ho.
First Slofyrs report reg blow by at the breech is A+
My own version did not display any breech damage but the barrel breech displayed much of the rough finish his displayed. I fixed this similarly using a chamfering tool in the lathe, deepening the exsisting (such as it was) by a further 0.5mm.
It cleaned it up beautifully.
I could not get hold of the washer used in his post but after sorting the breech entry had no further problems after packing the std O ring with a slim steel washer i machined.
Now, this breech will not blow by but i did get 2 internal hisses a few weeks later and one more a week after that ....or over about 400 shots.s
In i go and stripped the breech block and valve down. It appeared to me that the valve return under spring pressure is likely to get stuck on rare occasions as it was fairly dry. I used some synthetic motor oil to lube it until i was perfectly happy that it slips up and down.
No leaks noticed since.
Now power.
I initially got 345 fps pre breech mod with Geko. Similar with R10 until i ran out 341 fps hi.
Post breach mod with 0.2mm packing washer under O ring and i get 20 to 22 fps.
She ran 364 to 367 fps for almost a month with remarkable consistancy when i decided this was not enough power but i got the impression it would have continued like this for a good few 1000 rounds.
....but i gots to meddle dont i.
In we go. Piston is chucked and i machine a spot face 12 x 6 deep with a slot drill.
I then machine up a coin sized disc in aluminium with matching spigot to suit the size of the hole i just bored into the face. Like a top hat.
THis top hat is then squeezed into the spot face with a drop of bearing fit to glue it in place.
20 mins later i re chuck the piston and skim the head of this disc in the lathe until the disc is 0.2mm thick...in otherwords an extra 0.2mm added to the front of the piston to reduce volume.
Everything looks fine. I relube and reassemble.
I notice a matched cocking effort to that of a HW40 pistol i use to have. Perhaps 5lbs or so more.
Chrony test gives 403 fps, 407 fps with the Geko....i editted the various stages that got me to the 0.2mm final settled on.
Other observations.....dont really like garrish white logo markings....prefered the old FAS understatement.
Cocking mini lever needs a dab of oil at hinge point....its sticky.
Foresight too thick for me personally ....living with it as slimming it while maintaining finish and lines will be tricky.....give me a month ill trim it alright .
I think what we have here is a classic case of a classic going from cottage industry hand fitting into a production environment.
To do anything well in production environments you must have strict quality control at every stage or you will have problems.
For me at any rate, this is a fine looking tool that was worth the hand reffiting.
Chiappa have really missed a trick here though. Its growed out a nice little reputation of issues which it should never have needed to have with a little bit of effort.....maybe just one thorough inspector on the shop floor.
They also missed a trick with not offering a scope rail, barrel weight and the old sight extender as extras.....huge potential market for those if they manage to set the gun up right.
clarky wrote:Chiappa have really missed a trick here though. Its growed out a nice little reputation of issues which it should never have needed to have with a little bit of effort.....maybe just one thorough inspector on the shop floor. They also missed a trick with not offering a scope rail, barrel weight and the old sight extender as extras.....huge potential market for those if they manage to set the gun up right.
If the factory incorporates a series of quality inspections during the manufacturing and assembly lines, the pistol would be more expensive to produce. The FAS 6004 was meant to be an economical ten meter air pistol, adding all the additional extras you had mentioned will raise the cost of the pistol.
If the factory incorporates a series of quality inspections during the manufacturing and assembly lines, the pistol would be more expensive to produce. The FAS 6004 was meant to be an economical ten meter air pistol, adding all the additional extras you had mentioned will raise the cost of the pistol.
Is the ability to function correctly considered an "additional extra" ?
That would go down as one of the best sales pitches of all time !
Customer... "looks good...how does she perform ?"
Salesman....." depends if you're lucky"
Maybe a more honest approach would be to sell two versions...
1. The "DIY" version. $300 USD which comes with all tools and parts to finish correctly.
2. The "You're Lucky punk" version. $500 USD which will shoot 500 fps and has a 12 month warranty.
LMFAO!... D.E.D., I like your sarcasm!
C’mon, the truth is that some people will have a hard time coughing up the extra money for the “lucky punk” version, they would rather play airgun smithing and save “myself” some bucks...
Nice work, Clarky! As an aside, I have NEVER found a gun with a front sight too wide. I suggest opening the rear notch instead of narrowing the front. I have been well pleased with using a 3/16" chain saw file to form a half moon notch of Russian fame.
Another factor is time. If Chiappa has been following this (and they would be dumb not to), they may be addressing some of the issues at the factory now. They aren't going to do a thorough tune up, but they could buy better seals, machine the pistons for higher compression and chamfer/polish the breech face without adding significant cost.
Consider all the initial problems Match Guns had with the MG2. I recall a lot of posts that complained about faulty parts & design initially. It took them a while, but rumor has it they've addressed all the feeding & reliability issues.
If they want to stay in business, Chiappa has to reduce the customer complaints & warranty work to an acceptable level. If they are all as bad as some people claim, then the reputable dealers won't want the headaches after a while, and they will refuse to sell them. Or, an enterprising dealer may start tuning them up & selling them at a premium. One way or another, the market will decide. At the moment, if you want a good one, it appears to be in the "kit" category for those with the tools, time & inclination.
