TargetTalk

Ralf wrote:So you guys are still debating this pistol. This is so funny. I wonder how many targettalk-threads there are about problems regarding MG2?

Obviously a very troublesome pistol.

Indeed !

Instead of using a poll to elect the worst gun, just count the amount of post about problems for each type of pistol.

The MG2 will easily be elected as worst gun.

Josef wrote:

Ralf wrote:So you guys are still debating this pistol. This is so funny. I wonder how many targettalk-threads there are about problems regarding MG2?

Obviously a very troublesome pistol.

Indeed !

Instead of using a poll to elect the worst gun, just count the amount of post about problems for each type of pistol.

The MG2 will easily be elected as worst gun.

Well, if you count that, 95% of the bitching and whining about the MG2 will be from guests. How serious is criticism if it is anonymous?

Josef wrote:Instead of using a poll to elect the worst gun, just count the amount of post about problems for each type of pistol.

Isn't it strange that the overwhelming majority of anti-MG" posts are made by anonymouse "guests".

As someone who has no feelings about the MG2 one way the other I do suspect a smear campaign by one or two people.

Yes, there are lots of posts related to the MG2. Most of them however are either from these anonymouse snipers or in response to them.

I am not saying that the MG2 is perfect, that would obviously be untrue. If it is as bad as some guests are trying to make out it would give credibility to their claims if they identified themselves.

TB wrote:Well, if you count that, 95% of the bitching and whining about the MG2 will be from guests. How serious is criticism if it is anonymous?

You beat me by a couple of minutes TB. I totally agree with you.

Hi.

I am a Norwegian who likes bitching and whining more than shooting.

Does this prove my point????


TB

Marketing people know that unhappy customers generate about 10 times the publicity of happy customers. As we have one complaining Norwegian here, and about a dozen (more or less) happy MG2-users all over the planet, that gives us 120 functioning pistols to 1 problem case, which is a pretty good ratio, IMHO. Most other companies never got there.

This one is my favorite:

P. Bohlin wrote:
Ask Mr M.Andersson of Njurunda, Sweden, what he thinks of the MG2. He came in third in the Swedish Championship of 2007 with an AW93. He started with a MG2 that broke, was supplied with another MG2 from the Swedish agent (who was on site) that also broke, and then borrowed an AW93 to finish the competition with.

It does not get much worse than this!

That was 2007 this is 2009. Many things have changed since then.

Tycho wrote:Neither - did it myself. The problem our anonymous friend had with the barrels is typical for non-communication between shooter, dealer and manufacturer - the newer models have a differently located cradle and therefore a shorter barrel. Now if you can't manage to discuss the version of your pistol with Matchguns, don't be surprised if the parts don't match. As the MG2E in question already had the new frame, I simply had to switch the cradle etc. The only operation I can think of that I can't do on my desk is the relocation of the cradle axis, everything else is straightforward.

Can you honestly tell us how many parts of your MG2 were changed in order to get a reliable pistol ?

Does it matter if it was one or all of them? It's reliable and the factory changed the parts so who cares?

Richard H wrote:Does it matter if it was one or all of them? It's reliable and the factory changed the parts so who cares?

The future MG2 buyers should know how much time and effort - mail, phone calls, shipment to Italy - is needed to have a working MG2.

Another aspect not clearly described: MG2 reliability. How many/how often parts break and need to be replaced.

Anonymous wrote:The future MG2 buyers should know how much time and effort - mail, phone calls, shipment to Italy - is needed to have a working MG2.

Guest, whoever you are, could you please explain how knowing what parts were needed to upgrade an old gun to the new gun specification would help future MG2 buyers.

All they need to know about is new guns.

Breaking parts? Not that I know of, after the early batch of BIL's, no problems in this area. My MG2(M), serial 10xx, has been working perfectly well for some years now.

David Levene wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The future MG2 buyers should know how much time and effort - mail, phone calls, shipment to Italy - is needed to have a working MG2.

Guest, whoever you are, could you please explain how knowing what parts were needed to upgrade an old gun to the new gun specification would help future MG2 buyers.

All they need to know about is new guns.

That's the real point: there is still no evidence that a new, latest design MG2 will work without the need to replace some parts.

There are old MG2 working well without parts replaced, there are other that need to be completely rebuild to work. There are also recent (read the many posts = less than one year old) that also need to have parts replaced.

It seems clear that besides design problems there are also manufacturing problems and quality control issues.

Moreover, new parts do not fit into old guns without replacing a lot of other parts and Matchguns seems not to be able to track what type of parts are mounted on a given gun !

So when someone buys a new MG2:
- he is not sure that his new gun will work right out of the box
- he may need a lot of time and effort to swap parts to have a working gun
- he must be prepared to ship his gun back to the factory, with all time, paperwork and costs needed for doing that.
- inbetween he cannot use his MG2

I have a 11XX Serial Number Matchguns MG2 which I purchased direct from the factory just before Xmas (2008). It arrived promptly and I have had no major problems or malfunctions. It did not like the really cheap ammo at the club but this was due to the build up of residue/gunk and since swicthing to cleaner ammo (less lube) I have had no reliability problems. Do I get the odd stove pipe...?...yes. But I shoot ISSF style club competitions every week against a normal line of Pardini and Walthers and they are claiming more "allowable malfunctions" then my solo Matchguns.

I think people have to realise that nothing is created perfect and Matchguns appear to have solved the problems that dogged the "Early" MG2s and that is testament to how any company takes Customer Service complaints and utilizes them to improve the product. I read a lot about the early problems Matchguns had with their MG2 but when I was making that purchase decision (between a Pardini SP1, Walther GSP Expert and a Morini CM22 and of course the Matchguns MG2) the fact that they had addressed and resolved the major issues made me decide to choose them (as well as for the benefits that the model has over the competition). I have nothing but praise for Stefano and the Matchguns operation as a whole, I have never had any cause to complain. So consider me another happy customer to add to your rough statistics.

In fact I just ordered the MG4!

If I was a moderator I would consider locking this thread as it appears to be a way of continually dragging the Matchguns name through the mud over old problems - perhaps even industrial sabotage!

Interesting you have just bought a new gun ex factory serial number 11XX. I bought my MG2 in Melbourne Australia 4 years ago with SN = 12XX. Seems odd they have gone back....

Anonymous wrote:Interesting you have just bought a new gun ex factory serial number 11XX. I bought my MG2 in Melbourne Australia 4 years ago with SN = 12XX. Seems odd they have gone back....

Match Guns had rebuild older model MG2's for sale for a while. Maybe it is one of those?!

TB wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting you have just bought a new gun ex factory serial number 11XX. I bought my MG2 in Melbourne Australia 4 years ago with SN = 12XX. Seems odd they have gone back....

Match Guns had rebuild older model MG2's for sale for a while. Maybe it is one of those?!

Got a call from a shooting pal in Santa Fe last week, who informed me the Matchguns company was about to ask for protection under "Chapter 11".
They stopped production of new frames in december last year, and are now assembling a few guns from the stock of spare parts.
This may explain the old serial numbers on "new" guns.

Matchguns is European, they do have bankruptcy but do they call it chapter 11 which is US law?

Just as an interesting aside... I shot a match last night at a local club. The line consisted of several Walther GSP's (one Expert), a couple of Hammerli SP20's, a High Standard or two, a S&W 41, and a pair of MG-2's. The only allowable malfunction of the evening were experienced with a GSP, and that was while shooting .32, not .22.

Note the MG-2's performed flawlessly.

One of them was mine. Another belonged to the fellow shooting beside me. In a conversation during a target change we both agreed that we couldn't remember our last malfunction with the MG-2. Likewise, we couldn't remember when we last cleaned them. They just shoot, and shoot very well.

There are 5 MG-2's in the local area (that I know of) and they all perform flawlessly. One of them has required factory rework (a very early model, brought up to current production standard by the factory, and in very short time, too), one of them required rework because of a maintenance error (mine), and two of them have had barrels/slides replaced because Matchguns for a short while went with an unworkable extractor configuration (one of these was mine as well).

The bottom line here is that Matchguns has done an excellent job of supporting the pistol, period. I wish I could have said the same for Feinwerkbau and my AW93, or Hammerli and their non-stop run of cracked SP20 frames. Or dare I mention Pardini and their cracked frames and troublesome electronic triggers in early models? Or Walther and the many problems of the SSP?

Nobody's perfect. Nobody makes a perfect product. The true measure is how an imperfect product is made perfect by an understanding and caring factory. I manage customer support for a living and thus hold suppliers to a very high standard of customer support. Matchguns has met and exceeded all of my customer satisfaction criteria. And THAT's why I shoot my MG-2's with confidence.