Self Analysis

[higginsdj]

How much stock/effort should one put into self analysis during a shoot/training? I'm not talking general type analysis but very specific analysis. ie I've read some threads where shooters have been 'looking' for effect of heart rate on hold etc.

I had my first scored shoot on the weekend and the results were 'less' than I had expected. But I am not troubled by them - I am a novice afterall. One thing I did (that I perhaps shouldn't have done) was set up a spotting scope and as a result I became more interested in the score than my technique to the point that I was able to shift my groups from high right to loosely around the centre without changing my sights.

OK - long winded - but is one not at risk of finding exactly what one is investigating ie my groups were high and right but my subconscious was making adjustments to put them in the centre......

Cheers

David

[Freepistol]

David, it is necessary to set up a spotting scope to at least check your zero.
I've come from an outdoor prone background where individual shot knowledge is imperative due to weather conditions.

I shot an air pistol match where I didn't look through the scope until after the string of fire was done. I am more interested in shooting a good free pistol score, so it wasn't a big deal to experiment with air. I really didn't see a decrease in score and will do it again, but not right away with free. I may have a hard time getting used to not knowing what I shot and using that information to "improve" my technique. I don't see why one would want to use the subconscience to move the impact point. That may introduce other technical errors. Proper technique will center your shots after your pistol is zeroed.

I invested a lot of time on technique in the mid-nineties. I shot different days with relaxed hand placement, for example. What is frustrating is I lost all my notes in my old computer and can't remember if, or where, I printed all those notes.
Regards,
Ben

[deadeyedick]

Good advice Freepistol. After zeroing, and cheching my sights are in the correct position, I sometimes don't use a scope during the match, as not having it removes the added stress placed on shots left, for example, you may have shot four tens in a row and the fifth shot suddenly becomes more important, distracting you from technique, and placing more emphasis on score.
p.s. If you are right handed, shots high and right can be caused by "heeling" , where you move the lower palm down and to the left as the trigger is squeezed....worth checking, at least. Keep it up.

[higginsdj]

Not quite the point I was trying to make...... but advice accepted. Personally I don't think I was gripping the pistol tight enough - but that s another story :)

My point is that here my subconscious acted to change my technique to fit a goal - move the group to the Centre of the target. Often times the power of suggestion (over analysing things perhaps) can make you see things that are not really there. Again - a subconscious thing (??).....

So should we allow the subconscious to control anything - and if so how do we control it?

[Freepistol]

Try this one, David:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ght=unique

[Fred Mannis]

How much stock/effort should one put into self analysis during a shoot/training? I'm not talking general type analysis but very specific analysis. ie I've read some threads where shooters have been 'looking' for effect of heart rate on hold etc.

I had my first scored shoot on the weekend and the results were 'less' than I had expected. But I am not troubled by them - I am a novice afterall. One thing I did (that I perhaps shouldn't have done) was set up a spotting scope and as a result I became more interested in the score than my technique to the point that I was able to shift my groups from high right to loosely around the centre without changing my sights.

OK - long winded - but is one not at risk of finding exactly what one is investigating ie my groups were high and right but my subconscious was making adjustments to put them in the centre......

Self analysis during training is different from self analysis during a match.
When training you should engage in self analysis as a method to improve technique. When shooting a match, self analysis can be counter productive, as Deadeye points out. However, when things go awry during a match, it often is very helpful to take a break, analyze what is happening and why, and develop a plan to get back on track.

All of the above has to do with conscious behavior. When you have advanced to the point where you can shoot, say, 500-540 you can spend some time on how to train your subconscious. Until then, best to spend your time developing good technique.

[deadeyedick]

Until then, best to spend your time developing good technique.

As a "novice" to use your words David,Freds advice couldn't be better. Concious analysis is for the improvement of technique, and should be left out of the equation once a match has begun.... that is the time to allow your sub concious to draw on muscle memory...concious input and problem solving at that time will only further diminish the result. Now is the time to learn good basic technique, and practise it vigorously. Shots [in my experience] that group in the wrong position on the target are usually because of a technical deficiency rather that the workings of our brain. Practice is the answer...but practising the correct technique is the truth.

Personally I don't think I was gripping the pistol tight enough

Much research has been undertaken with regards to how firmly we should grip the pistol. The results were that the pistol must not be held any more tightly than is required to prevent it from moving in the hand. This has the added benefit of not tensioning the tendons that extend from the forearm muscles to the fingers too much, which will have an adverse affect on the trigger flexibility and co ordination.
Also you will find that most of the gripping effort is best applied by the middle, ring and little finger. All this is to keep the pistol stable within the grip, and yet allow the trigger squeeze to be flexible and unimpeded.

p.s. Did you make a decision regarding the purchase of the Domino/Fas 602 ?

[higginsdj]

Thanks for the thread link - good stuff.

Yes - I love the FAS and will be buying it though not sure how things will now proceed due to the sudden illness of a prominent member at CNPC.

[deadeyedick]

Congratulations.

[bryan]

I got a fas 602,very good gun.

I would start by saying you need to look at every shot regardless, not looking is asking for trouble.

it is purely call the shot, then confirm it. not result, but position.

the question is not possible to answer.
not enough information.

more probable, you were not following through due to anxiety, then settled down as comp procceded as you shot below expectation, and group shifted back to correct point.

this then if correct opens up much analysis.

so to avoid alot of wasted time, next comp just keep working on process, not outcome.

[higginsdj]

Hi Bryan,

You don't happen to have a manual for it do you?

I find my best shots are the ones where I feel tension in the back of my hand (wrist) and have the sensation of 'zooming' in on the front sight (focussing hard) as the shot is triggered. With these I get the recoil up the length of the arm rather than seeing the hand 'flop' off to the right.

Cheers

David

[bryan]

david, I found trigger adjustment manual on internet, rest is staight forward. try not to touch trigger adjustment.

assume it was free pistol
what a your training/comp results?

bryan

[deadeyedick]

Try this...you might need an Italian interpreter. The website says 602, but the parts drawing comes up as a 607. http://www.dominoguns.it/catalogo/?p=pr ... -cal-22-lr

[David Levene]

Try this...you might need an Italian interpreter. The website says 602, but the parts drawing comes up as a 607. http://www.dominoguns.it/catalogo/?p=pr ... -cal-22-lr

Unfortunately that drawing is a 607 which has a different trigger and hammer box arrangement. Many of the internal components are common, but not all.

[ausdiver99]

David

I know someone who has had a 602 for many years, I'll see whether he has a manual which I could scan. In the meantime this is an interesting link http://bullshooter.blogspot.com/20 ... autos.html

Regards

Pete