Hello Everybody! It's been a while since my last post. Anywho, I've been shopping for small-bore rifles, because I have been told again and again to start early. I'm a sophomore in high school, so I figured it would be a great time to start. I'm joining a local club, which will allow me to practice small-bore because my school's team is 3p air only. I currently have a red/black/silver FWB P700a and love it! I have been told that FWB small-bores..... not so much. I've mainly been looking at the Anschutz 2013, 2213, 2313, but have had difficulty finding what the difference is between them, and only being in light blue... :-/. I would also like to know whether or not the Grunig Elmiger RS III KK 2013/1907 is worth anything. It's the most amazing rifle I've ever seen! However, I have not heard much about it and have the instinct that it's ridiculously expensive. Being a lefty makes it just that much more expensive. If anyone could help me out, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. And the link to the Grunig + Elmiger site is: http://www.gruenel.ch/
-Haynes
Small-bore Shopping
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Anschutz has many different color combinations, just talk to whoever you order from about the availability of them.
Nothing wrong with the Feinwerkbau smallbore rifles. The stocks are typically nicer than those of the Anschutz (billet vs. cast aluminum), and you'd be hard pressed to find any difference in accuracy. Its really just personal preference in that regard.
The difference between the series of rifles you mentioned are a combination of stocks and actions. The 1913 and 2013 are both wood stocked, but two different action types. The 2000 series action is a stainless square action, the 1900 series your more traditional blued round action with two bedding screws. Both shoot very well (if not equally well), but the 2000 action allows quick change clamp in barrels. Other differences are really subtle as far as how they "feel" when you shoot them. the 2213 is the 1913 in an aluminum stock, the 2313 is a 2013 in an aluminum stock.
The GE rifles are top notch, and the price does reflect that.
Have you considered buying used? Based on the latest prices from Champion Shooters Supply, you may be looking at a fair bit over $4000 with sights and accessories.
Nothing wrong with the Feinwerkbau smallbore rifles. The stocks are typically nicer than those of the Anschutz (billet vs. cast aluminum), and you'd be hard pressed to find any difference in accuracy. Its really just personal preference in that regard.
The difference between the series of rifles you mentioned are a combination of stocks and actions. The 1913 and 2013 are both wood stocked, but two different action types. The 2000 series action is a stainless square action, the 1900 series your more traditional blued round action with two bedding screws. Both shoot very well (if not equally well), but the 2000 action allows quick change clamp in barrels. Other differences are really subtle as far as how they "feel" when you shoot them. the 2213 is the 1913 in an aluminum stock, the 2313 is a 2013 in an aluminum stock.
The GE rifles are top notch, and the price does reflect that.
Have you considered buying used? Based on the latest prices from Champion Shooters Supply, you may be looking at a fair bit over $4000 with sights and accessories.
Small-bore Shopping
I have considered used, but it's difficult to find what I'm looking for, in left. All the pictures of the anshutzes on the websites look quite similar. I'm starting to lean towards the GE with the 2013 barrel. I just need to find out how much it is before I make up my mind. I already have a lot of my equipment from air, and the GE comes with sights, buttplate, etc. The only thing I'd really need to buy is a palm rest. I'm trying to keep the price down as much as possible, while still having the best equipment.
Thanks for the swift reply WarWagon. I'd like to learn what some of that stuff means. I've never shot smallbore, and don't know the differences between square and round actions etc. Have any tips as to where I can learn that?
While I'm at it. Lately in the 3p air, I've noticed that my prone scores have gone down. I used to get 99's and 100's consistently. I can't seem to see the clear 10, i've tried different apuratures etc. I've heard other people say they had the same problem... but don't know how they fixed it. My standing and kneeling are fine, and I can see the clear 10. In prone.... i dunno.
Thanks again,
-Haynes
Thanks for the swift reply WarWagon. I'd like to learn what some of that stuff means. I've never shot smallbore, and don't know the differences between square and round actions etc. Have any tips as to where I can learn that?
While I'm at it. Lately in the 3p air, I've noticed that my prone scores have gone down. I used to get 99's and 100's consistently. I can't seem to see the clear 10, i've tried different apuratures etc. I've heard other people say they had the same problem... but don't know how they fixed it. My standing and kneeling are fine, and I can see the clear 10. In prone.... i dunno.
Thanks again,
-Haynes
FWB 2700
I have a FWB 2700 smallbore rifle and love mine! Exceptionally accurate, well fit, and it is nice to have the FWB 700 and switch over to the smallbore rifle without fealing any significant changes between the two. Mine got me to the Youth Commonwealth games where I just recently competed. I do not know too many people with these rifles but every body I have talked to so far has really liked theres. In my opnion they are as good as any out there. Of course, you can't go wrong with an Annie either ;)
hey
If you trying to keep the price down you dont want to go with the GE rifle, they are not cheap and you can get a annie or a fwb for cheaper. I shoot a 1913 super match annie and well love it. Its got a wood stock which is great. Just remember that you can always upgrade your stock later on. The annie or the fwb will suite your needs well i would not go with the GE just yet. use the extra money you save and buy more practice ammo. Since you have the fwb 700 air rifle, you should consider teh fwb 2700 smallbore rifle. They are good .22 rifles but i want with the 1913 just because ive been a annie fan all my life and thats what ive shot all the time. The 2000 series has the advantage of the easier barrel swab then the 1900 series but for most people thats not to big of deal.
lax
lax
I have a GE and they are amazing, on a whole different level of design, build quality and adjustment to the Anschutz and FWB. BUT they are too expensive to be buying for your first smallbore rifle. They are more than 1.5x the price and shouldn't really be considered until you are well and truly into the sport competitively.
So you should go for an Anschutz, FWB or Walther, they are all equally as good it is just a matter of personal preference. What you should consider when you think about which would suit you better is:
- price obviously
- the different stock types (FWB has quite a rounded stock at the front which suits some people whereas the Anschutz and Walther have very square front ends)
- availability of servicing and parts in your area (whether it will be easy to get the rifle fixed if it breaks)
- general feel (see if you can find people in your area that will give you a hold of their rifle), feel how the balance is (I for one cannot handle a very front heavy barrel when shooting standing) and how your body fits around the rifle (are you fighting any part of it?).
So you should go for an Anschutz, FWB or Walther, they are all equally as good it is just a matter of personal preference. What you should consider when you think about which would suit you better is:
- price obviously
- the different stock types (FWB has quite a rounded stock at the front which suits some people whereas the Anschutz and Walther have very square front ends)
- availability of servicing and parts in your area (whether it will be easy to get the rifle fixed if it breaks)
- general feel (see if you can find people in your area that will give you a hold of their rifle), feel how the balance is (I for one cannot handle a very front heavy barrel when shooting standing) and how your body fits around the rifle (are you fighting any part of it?).
Also note the different barrel length/weights you can get. A heavier barrel will give you less recoil which is especially good for shooting prone but some people can find the heavy barrels hard to shoot when shooting standing. It all depends on your build, height, strength.
In an Anschutz you can get a 07 barrel which is 30mm shorter than the 13 which is less front heavy. They also have a really short barrel that comes with a barrel extension but that is not really the usual kit, so I wouldn't worry about that one.
The FWB has a thinner barrel which is 22mm round rather than 24mm which will make the rifle lighter and less front heavy. Not sure about the Walther barrels.
In an Anschutz you can get a 07 barrel which is 30mm shorter than the 13 which is less front heavy. They also have a really short barrel that comes with a barrel extension but that is not really the usual kit, so I wouldn't worry about that one.
The FWB has a thinner barrel which is 22mm round rather than 24mm which will make the rifle lighter and less front heavy. Not sure about the Walther barrels.
I'm a lefty and empathies with your predicament. Best advice I can give is forget about the model and spec sheet. Use the connections at the club to get to matches and find LH shooters who are willing to let you shoot their rifles. Even better, find someone who will help you make changes to their rifle so it fits you during the test shoot. Find something that fits and buy one. I'm of the opinion that most high end rifles shoot very well. Finding one that fits will produce better results than using the rifle of a world champion not fitting the shooter.
My shooting sport is biathlon and I use an Izhmash which is half the cost of the Annies. My stock has been cut, chopped, ground and glued to in order to get the rifle to fit me. Wood is easily modified; aluminum is not. At the range many shooters cringe when they see my stock; its pretty fugly but the rifle fits me very well. Since I'm the guy shooting it 99.99% of the time I don't care what others think. I don't have any resale value concerns either. I'm enjoying the rifle and plan on keeping it. Stocks can be replaced.
The cost savings from the Annie allows me to use very good ammo and I can hold my own in local smallbore matches while shooting in a t-shirt, thin ski gloves, jeans and sneakers using my biathlon rhythm which is very fast compared to other shooters. I'm sure my scores would be higher if I had proper match shooting attire but not convinced a "better" rifle with not as good a fit would help much if at all.
At some point ammo will matter with regards to winning matches. Dumping all of your cash into a rifle and not being able to match the ammo because you cannot afford to shoot never made sense to me. A decent rifle fit to the shooter using ammo the gun likes will be competitive.
Most lefties have been through the same struggles to find a rifle and are very helpful and accommodating. Take advantage of these resources before buying. You will be better of in the long run.
My shooting sport is biathlon and I use an Izhmash which is half the cost of the Annies. My stock has been cut, chopped, ground and glued to in order to get the rifle to fit me. Wood is easily modified; aluminum is not. At the range many shooters cringe when they see my stock; its pretty fugly but the rifle fits me very well. Since I'm the guy shooting it 99.99% of the time I don't care what others think. I don't have any resale value concerns either. I'm enjoying the rifle and plan on keeping it. Stocks can be replaced.
The cost savings from the Annie allows me to use very good ammo and I can hold my own in local smallbore matches while shooting in a t-shirt, thin ski gloves, jeans and sneakers using my biathlon rhythm which is very fast compared to other shooters. I'm sure my scores would be higher if I had proper match shooting attire but not convinced a "better" rifle with not as good a fit would help much if at all.
At some point ammo will matter with regards to winning matches. Dumping all of your cash into a rifle and not being able to match the ammo because you cannot afford to shoot never made sense to me. A decent rifle fit to the shooter using ammo the gun likes will be competitive.
Most lefties have been through the same struggles to find a rifle and are very helpful and accommodating. Take advantage of these resources before buying. You will be better of in the long run.
Tanner rifles
How about Tanner rifles from Switzerland. Anyone have any experience with them? http://www.tanner-sportwaffen.ch/index1_e.html
Look at the weight of the rifles you have mentioned and then compare it to your P700.
If you are a smaller frame, look at the 1912 at 11lbs .... a bit larger is the 1913 at 13 lbs ... the 2213 is about 10.5 and the the 2013 is about 12.
All that is w/o sights ... add them and a sight extension tube and you're up another 3/4lb
If you're really looking at long term, don't skimp ... worse case the TT buy&sell area will get you back nearly what you paid for it
If you are a smaller frame, look at the 1912 at 11lbs .... a bit larger is the 1913 at 13 lbs ... the 2213 is about 10.5 and the the 2013 is about 12.
All that is w/o sights ... add them and a sight extension tube and you're up another 3/4lb
If you're really looking at long term, don't skimp ... worse case the TT buy&sell area will get you back nearly what you paid for it
Sophomore in high school isn't starting early, it's starting very late.
But anyhow, my suggestion for a rifle,
Get an Anschutz 1912.
They are a great all around rifle. All the adjustment you need. They are a great weight for most shooters and if you think they are a little light it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to add weight to a 1912 than to try and take it off a 1913 because it was too heavy for you.
The 1912 and the 1907 with the 2213-8700 butt hook are the 2 most popular rifles in our club.
But anyhow, my suggestion for a rifle,
Get an Anschutz 1912.
They are a great all around rifle. All the adjustment you need. They are a great weight for most shooters and if you think they are a little light it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to add weight to a 1912 than to try and take it off a 1913 because it was too heavy for you.
The 1912 and the 1907 with the 2213-8700 butt hook are the 2 most popular rifles in our club.