fiber optic sight legal for 10m air pistol center hold?

[Guest]

I am experimenting center hold. I want to see precisely center, but with black sight on black bulleye, I "can not shoot where I can not see".

Is attaching a fiber optic cable to front sight to illuminate tip of front sight legal in 10m air pistol?

[FP570]

I often wondered about that myself. Would the "optic" term exclude it from ISSF legality? I thought for RF it would also be good. Let's hope a forum member has an answer.

[David Levene]

A similar question was asked, either here on the Canadian forum, a few years ago.

A pistol shooter had drilled a hole in his front sight and inserted a short length of fibre optic cable. A competition judge had ruled this illegal as it was, he claimed, an optical sight.

The general concensus of opinion was that he was wrong. Using a piece of fibre optic cable, perhaps we should call it fibre strand cable, in this situation was no different to using a solid piece of plastic. Looking at it doesn't make it an optical sight, that only happens when you look through it.

[Guest]

Interesting. If I made a front sight post that can be pulled out or pushed in as the elevation adjustment, it would be considered a telescopic sight, right?

[pgfaini]

Interesting. If I made a front sight post that can be pulled out or pushed in as the elevation adjustment, it would be considered a telescopic sight, right?

Clever, and humorous.
Paul

[BPBrinson]

John McNally, 5 time Olympian in rapid fire, files a notch in the top of his front sight and glues a strand of colored (not sure what color, color memory issues, red ,I think). The AMU has several RF guns in their safe w/ the " McNally notch" on the front sight. So, it apparently is legal.

Brooks

[Steve Swartz]

. . . legal but apparently not that common . . .

[Fred Mannis]

I am experimenting center hold. I want to see precisely center, but with black sight on black bulleye, I "can not shoot where I can not see".

Is attaching a fiber optic cable to front sight to illuminate tip of front sight legal in 10m air pistol?

The question about inserting a length of fiber optic rod into a front sight has now been answered, but not guest's question about using a lenght of fiber optic to illuminate the front sight blade.

I have found that illuminating the front sight blade with an overhead spot light at home allows me to use a center hold fro 10M AP, but have not pursued this because I can't rely on sufficient overhead lighting at all ranges

I don't think using a front sight with a fiber optic rod inserted will be of much help in improving your center hold. True, the dot will be visible against the black bull, but how will this help your alignment of the dot in the rear notch? Perhaps if you made the apparent dot diameter equal to the notch width?

[gimgim]

> I want to see precisely center, but with black sight on black bulleye

Is this common in AP10?
I've always been shooting by aiming below the black area (a few inches below). That's how I've been taught.

[Fred Mannis]

> I want to see precisely center, but with black sight on black bulleye

Is this common in AP10?
I've always been shooting by aiming below the black area (a few inches below). That's how I've been taught.

No it is not common. But many shooters have experimented with center hold compared to sub 6, and some have ended up preferring it. You may wish to try it to satisfy yourself that your current method is better.

[Fred]

I am experimenting center hold. I want to see precisely center, but with black sight on black bulleye, I "can not shoot where I can not see".

There's another issue here that no one has commented on. I shoot center hold, but the last thing I want is to "see precisely center". Center hold is an area hold, just like sub-6. In fact I think of my center hold more as a sub-12 hold.

The implication of seeing "precisely center" is that the shooter wishes, above all, to see the target. The implication of area hold is that the shooter wishes to see the front sight and alignment with the rear. Two different purposes would call for two different types of front sight hardware.

FredB

[David Levene]

The question about inserting a length of fiber optic rod into a front sight has now been answered, but not guest's question about using a lenght of fiber optic to illuminate the front sight blade.

Are we talking about a power supply (battery), light source, fibre optics and associated equipment all being part of the gun and fitted to it during equipment control. If so then IMHO it is part of the gun. I cannot remember seeing anything in the gun specification rules that would prohibit it.

If however any of this equipment is external to the gun then I believe it would be in contravention of the 2nd sentance of rule 6.3.15.4 "The entire area must be evenly illuminated with no less than 300 lux." The key word is "evenly".

If a competitor is attempting to increase the light level in one specific area then he/she would probably be contravening the 2nd sentance of 8.4.1.1 "Anything (pistols, devices, equipment, accessories, etc.) which may give a shooter an unfair advantage over others and which is not mentioned in these Rules, or which is contrary to the spirit of the ISSF Rules and Regulations, is prohibited."

[Steve Swartz]

The tradeoff is a center hold is that you gain (?) but you lose

1. Ability to maintain physical focus on the front sight (eye will naturally seek target)
2. Ability to maintain mental focus on alignment (natural pull to try to line up 3 things in visual field instead of 2)
3. Ability to physically maintain alignment (distration of target background)

So yes, many top athletes have tried center hold. Some have stuck with it. Some have not. Not sure about the exact percentage breakdown.

However I would suggest you do what works best *for you* and not fall prey to the "Michael Jordan Effect."

I honestly don't know what the purported advantages are.

[Rob]

I've seen a guy mount a miniture lighting system on his Pardini free pistol that shot a beam of light on his front sight. Like a small flashlight that pointed to his front sight. He had wires running back to a battery supply. Just from talking to him over the years, he was a "center" hold shooter. This was a few years ago.

[David Levene]

I've seen a guy mount a miniture lighting system on his Pardini free pistol that shot a beam of light on his front sight. Like a small flashlight that pointed to his front sight. He had wires running back to a battery supply.

This obviously wouldn't contravene any lighting rules. There aren't any for anything other than the target area on a 50m range.

Two other problems that might apply:-
The first sentance of 8.4.2.1.1 "Neither the grip nor any part of the pistol may be extended or constructed in any way that would allow it to touch beyond the hand."
The first sentance of 8.6.1.1 The shooter must stand free, without support, with both feet and/or shoes completely within the firing point.

These rules are probably getting pedantic. Stupidity however is not included in the rules so the jury could make a decision to disqualify him for that reason ;-)

[2650 Plus]

Please remember that the only thing in the line of vision thad doesen't move is the target. Once you become convinced of that fact there is no longer the great temtation to look there. Accept your hold, apply steady pressure to the trigger, and begin perfecting sight allignment. Let the pistol fire when ever it is ready. follow through until the sights return to the hold position Maintaining your focus on the sights. You will Shoot better. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[tleddy]

Years ago (and not for center hold) I drilled a 1 mm hole through the front sight on my FP and AP to pull my focus to the front sight. I use sub-6 hold so the light coming in from the front would pull my eyes to the front sight and keep it there.

On a 1911 I cut a square notch in the longitudinal part about 8 mm long and 5 mm deep, then drilled the rearmost part of the sight and painted the forward surface white. The light would reflect off of the white paint and light up the hole... this was for shooting under cover with overhead lighting on very cloudy days.

Anything to keep focus on the front sight.

Tillman

[2650 Plus]

I agree with the post just above. No concern with anything that helps the shooter focus precisely on the front sight no matter how strange it may seem to other shooters that may prefer a clean black square front sight level with the flat black top of the rear sight and centered in the rear sight notch. To each what works best for him/her. I shoot one way on every shot and my way works best for me. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[kbc]

How about sending the front (and the rear if desired) sight to a custom shop to be coated with tritium? The front sight will sure stand out from the black circle.

[Steve Swartz]

Also the rule about "enclosed" or "hooded" (sights must be of "open" or "patridge" type) sights wuld apply?

I don't have the rule book handly but Tillman may have run afoul of that one if the hole in his front sight went all the way through . . . i.e. for pistol no "rings" allowed front or rear IIRC.