I've wanted to upgrade from my IZH-46M for many years now but have never got around to actually purchasing. Some other use for the money always seemed to come up and I always talked myself into staying with the Izzy. To let you know where I stand, I shoot in the 530-540 range, depending on how much practice I get in. My personal high is 553. I'm thinking maybe I'm ready for a better AP.
Also, now that my eldest is old enough to graduate from the Gamo Compact he's used for some time, he's taken to shooting my IZH-46M. This has left me with a perfect excuse to spend some money on myself.
Unfortunately, when I'm finally ready to lay down my money, I find that the AP I'd intended to buy, the FWB 103, has been discontinued and all the places I called this morning (Pilk, ChampChoice, Neal J., etc.) are sold out. I'd rather not buy a Beeman-imported gun if possible as I think the huge engraving they do on the top of their APs is hideously ugly. I know that may be a petty stance and it certainly does not effect the APs function in any way, but still... I looks so amateurish in my opinion. I understand there are (or at least were) several other FWB importers over the years and I've tried to source from them. No luck.
I think I'd like to stay with single stroke pneumatic and have always thought the FWB 103 was a fine choice. I realise that SSP is a bit old-school and all the serious big boys and girls now shoot PCP. I might end up going that way if I can't find a 103, but I really like the simplicity of the cock-n-shoot, at least for now.
Anyone know where I could find a new FWB 103 (rt. hand)? Hopefully without the unsightly Beeman engraving across the top, I should add.
I've posted in the buy/sell/trade forum to see if I can find a used specimen if my search for a new FWB 103 fails.
Otherwise, convince me that I should not be looking for a discontinued model that uses older technology.
Feinwerkbau 103 availability...or should I move up to PCP?
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Feinwerkbau 103 availability...or should I move up to PCP?
Last edited by Eurastus on Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: Feinwerkbau 103 availability...or should I move up to PC
Quite the contrary, I suggest you keep looking for one. I bought a used FWB103 earlier this year and have been very happy with my choice. The trigger is superb; with the cocking handle removed, the weight and balance are excellent; and I can shoot it as well as any of my 'modern technology' AP. It makes for a great backup.Eurastus wrote: Otherwise, convince me that I should not be looking for a discontinued model that uses older technology.
The original owner did buy this pistol from Beeman, but it does not have any big ugly Beeman engraving/labeling on it. Just some small lettering underneath the Feinwerkbau name saying imported by Beeman. So you might give them a call to see what they have. Also, you might try Brenzovich - they carry FWB products.
Fred
Re: Feinwerkbau 103 availability...or should I move up to PC
Most interesting, Fred. This is indeed good news.Fred Mannis wrote:The original owner did buy this pistol from Beeman, but it does not have any big ugly Beeman engraving/labeling on it. Just some small lettering underneath the Feinwerkbau name saying imported by Beeman.
Is your 103 the older blue-colored version or one of the later grey-toned pistols? Do you happen to have a photo of the Beeman lettering?
Thanks for your trouble.
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
I really glad that I decided to buy when I did.Eurastus wrote:On Fred's suggestion, I checked with Brenzovich; he is out of stock. In fact, he said he got the last shipment out of California (I assume Beeman) and has sold them all.
This does not bode well for my attempts to find a new 103...
Suggest you ask Pilkington to let you know when a used one turns up. I know there were two available earlier this year.
Now that marking looks perfect, not at all like the one I saw a couple of years ago at a local range. But then again, that was one of the dark blue-colored 103 APs.
That marking is very tastefully done. Looks like it could even have been done from the factory at the same time as the Feinwerkbau logo and name.
Well, Fred, this is certainly good news, and opens up a whole new potential source for the gun.
I think I'll give Beeman a call and see if they know of any retailers that still have any in stock. If I still can't locate a new one, I'll turn to used sources, including Pilkington.
That marking is very tastefully done. Looks like it could even have been done from the factory at the same time as the Feinwerkbau logo and name.
Well, Fred, this is certainly good news, and opens up a whole new potential source for the gun.
I think I'll give Beeman a call and see if they know of any retailers that still have any in stock. If I still can't locate a new one, I'll turn to used sources, including Pilkington.
I agree totally with Fred about the fact that the FWB 103 is as accurate as any PCP and that it allows to shoot very good scores.
But, having shot such kind of pistols and having switched to PCP, my experience is that PCP is much more pleasant to shoot with.
Also for match shooting, the process of mounting the lever, arming the pistol and then removing it between each shot is for me a perturbation compared to just cocking a PCP. With a PCP, you can really devote all your concentration to the shooting process.
As also said, for the price of a FWB 103 you can buy any top match PCP you would like.
So, my question is: have you ever tried a top match PCP like a Morini 162, Steyr LP10... ? If you didn't, I would advise to try one before investing in the FWB103.
But, having shot such kind of pistols and having switched to PCP, my experience is that PCP is much more pleasant to shoot with.
Also for match shooting, the process of mounting the lever, arming the pistol and then removing it between each shot is for me a perturbation compared to just cocking a PCP. With a PCP, you can really devote all your concentration to the shooting process.
As also said, for the price of a FWB 103 you can buy any top match PCP you would like.
So, my question is: have you ever tried a top match PCP like a Morini 162, Steyr LP10... ? If you didn't, I would advise to try one before investing in the FWB103.
Last edited by jipe on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think that you should move up to a pcp. You are shooting well enough to justify it. The only thing is of course how you are going to fill it. The scuba tank, K valve and adapter will run you a few hundred dollars over the cost of the air pistol. If you go the 103 route, you will put yourself at a disadvantage in the sport.
I highly doubt this is true. A top level shooter will be within a few points of their normal average with dang near Any pistol out there.... even the IZH46m. If the IZH had a better weight balance, I'm not sure there would be any functional reason to update from that pistol.Misny wrote:If you go the 103 route, you will put yourself at a disadvantage in the sport.
Its impossible to be always on either side of ones average, if your always one one side that moves your average.
The draw back of SSP pistol is the interuption of the shot process. With CO2 and PCP there one less thing to do. Its not a major advantage, but it is an advantage some may take better advantage of it than others. The other advantage is the fact that CO2 and PCP pistols are mechanically simpler than SSP's.
The only advantage that SSP's have is that you don't need a pump or tank, which isn't a performance advantage.
The draw back of SSP pistol is the interuption of the shot process. With CO2 and PCP there one less thing to do. Its not a major advantage, but it is an advantage some may take better advantage of it than others. The other advantage is the fact that CO2 and PCP pistols are mechanically simpler than SSP's.
The only advantage that SSP's have is that you don't need a pump or tank, which isn't a performance advantage.
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fred.mannis
My recollection is that Russ' scores with his IZH46M (mid 570's) were very close to what he was shooting with his Benelli PCP.Misny wrote:A top level shooter will be within a few points of their normal average
Would that top level shooter be on the low or high side of his or her average with a manually operated pistol?
If my goal was to shoot on the national team in World Cup & Olympics, sure I would use a PCP, but for recreational shooting I don't think a FWB103 or similar SSP would put me at a disadvantage
I'd like to thank all those who posted in this thread (at least so far). I ended up finding a used dark blue FWB 103 from a fellow in Arizona.
The brown man (UPS) brought it by the office this morning and it really looks fine. I can't find a blemish or scrape on it anywhere. In fact, the little white Styrofoam balls are still clinging by static electricity all over the grip. This pistol looks like it's never been shot.
Price was great; I couldn't believe what he asked for it.
I'll be certain to hit the ol' basement range this evening after work and see how it shoots. I've already spent my entire lunch hour dry-firing with the office door closed; that trigger sure is sweet right out of the box.
Oh, and by the way, even though it is the older model of the 103, without the Morini grip, it has the same Beeman marking as the image above of Fred's gun. It does not have the large engraving I was worried about.
It feels like this FWB 103 (with the cocking lever off) weighs a pound less than the Izzy 46M I've been shooting. I'll bet that alone will make a huge difference in my scores.
Once again, thanks for all your advice and opinions.
We'll see how this AP work out for me. Who knows? I might be out looking for a new P44 after a while and end up with the best aspects of both the SSP and PCP worlds.
One can never have too many airguns, right?
The brown man (UPS) brought it by the office this morning and it really looks fine. I can't find a blemish or scrape on it anywhere. In fact, the little white Styrofoam balls are still clinging by static electricity all over the grip. This pistol looks like it's never been shot.
Price was great; I couldn't believe what he asked for it.
I'll be certain to hit the ol' basement range this evening after work and see how it shoots. I've already spent my entire lunch hour dry-firing with the office door closed; that trigger sure is sweet right out of the box.
Oh, and by the way, even though it is the older model of the 103, without the Morini grip, it has the same Beeman marking as the image above of Fred's gun. It does not have the large engraving I was worried about.
It feels like this FWB 103 (with the cocking lever off) weighs a pound less than the Izzy 46M I've been shooting. I'll bet that alone will make a huge difference in my scores.
Once again, thanks for all your advice and opinions.
We'll see how this AP work out for me. Who knows? I might be out looking for a new P44 after a while and end up with the best aspects of both the SSP and PCP worlds.
One can never have too many airguns, right?
Among the lucky IMHO
You are fortunate to get the vintage 103. My personal observations of the pistol (secured from our host some months ago) mirror yours. I have and shoot a P44, but since getting it, my 103 sees 95% of the use. The pre-Morini grip fits extremely well and needed no tweaking. The trigger is exquisite. Balance and weight (without the lever) suit me ideally. These are all personal preferences. Perhaps an analogy suggests your comfort level with cocking/charging each shot will be just fine. If you drive manual transmission....it becomes so automatic that it never enters your mind to plan shifts. For some, automatic transmission is the only way to go. I do not find cocking an removing the lever to affect time or attention. YMMV. You will thoroughly enjoy one of the finest pieces of pneumatic engineering....and you will shoot well with it.