Hämmerli FP 60, - how good?

[FP10]

I am considering purchase of the relatively new Hämmerli FP60 free pistol. The popular Morini M84 is much too heavy (standard and light version) for my old hands.

I have formerly owned a russian Mu-55, for five years, and own at present a Hämmerli FP10, (for aprox. 9 years).

Both the Mu-55 and the FP10 had desirable and less so features.
- - -

"Jipe" wrote in the "extractor of the FP10"-thread:

I recently bought a new Hammerly 160 special and I tried several ammunitions.
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May be one information for those who do not know the Hammerli 160: It (the extractor) is a half circle of the lower rear part of the chamber that moves to the rear and by doing so, push the cartridge out of the chamber.

So this ejector uses half of the rim of the cartridge instead of only a small part of it as in most 22lr pistols, so:
- it is almost impossble for the empty cartridge to stick into the chamber
- this ejector is much stronger than conventional one that are prone to break on many pistols.

May I ask someone, with experience from the Hämmerli FP 60 (not similar to 160):
The new Hämmerli FP60 is said to be a mixture of some former Hämmerli models, and the less common Hämmerli FP 10:

¤ How good is the trigger of the Hämmerli FP 60?
Similar in construction to the (complex) trigger of the FP10? (hope not).

¤ Is the action of the FP60 reinforced by steel inserts in the barrel mounting area, as the "improved" FP10, the MG 5?

¤ Is the barrel mounting of the FP60 more sturdy than that of the FP10? (hope so).

¤ Does the Hämmerli FP60 feature the wide, reliable (?) extractor/ejector aka that of the Hämmerli 160? (Much better than that of the FP 10 ?).

¤ Is the announced weight of the Hämmerli FP60 with the counterweights (and rod) included? (1090 grams).

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PROs and CONs of the Hämmerli FP 60.

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Hämmerli FP60 vs. FP10/MG5, Hämmerli 150/160-series?

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Is the Hämmerli FP60 used to any extent in international competitions (yet)?

[jipe]

Before buying my 160 special, I looked also at the fp60.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any shop having an fp60. So I compared the exploded views of the two pistols. Out of this comparison,:
- the complete falling block mecanism seems the same
- the complete firing mecanism seems the same
- the extraction mecanism seems the same
- the trigger mecanism seems the same but the trigger blade part is different

The frame is new and seems to be in aluminium on the fp60. The consequence of this is that the barrel and barrel mounting method are different on the fp60.

I do not know the exact weight of the fp60, but my 160 special weights 1350g, similar weight as the cm84e. This weight is with the barrel weigth mounting rails and weights. All this can be removed, see picture below (its not mine):


The rear sight is different too: the fp60 has depth and width adjustments not available on the 160 (this one has exchangeable rear sigth blades).

Even if the 160 is derived from the 150, this older design is different (loading/fire pin cocking lever, trigger mecanism...).

If you want to make the comparison yourself:
http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/files ... lliste.pdf
http://www.pilkguns.com/manuals/Haemmerli160_162.pdf

[FP10]

http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/files ... lliste.pdf

Thanks for the explodes wievs, "jipe".

According to that "exploded" drawing, the FP 60 does not carry many features inherited from the FP 10.

[jipe]

http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/files ... lliste.pdf

Thanks for the explodes wievs, "jipe".

According to that "exploded" drawing, the FP 60 does not carry many features inherited from the FP 10.

Yes, true... and normal: the fp10 was subcontracted to SAM while the fp60 is an hammerli design, the real sucessor and an evolution of the 160 just like the 160 was from the 150.

If you are looking for an evolution of the fp10, you should look at the Matchgun MG5.

[Reinhamre]

Hi, I am a lucky owner of a FP60
I have added a compensator for Morini 84E but this is made for my FP60.
The 84E has a 15 mm barrel and the FP60 has a 14 mm barrel.
I now use a front sight from Morini 84E. This is a nice combination as the rear sight on FP60 is better than the one on 84E.
Trigger on FP60 is the best I have had (I have had 152, FP10 and 2 x 84E)

FP60 with compensator and Rink grip in medium is 1135 gram



Kent

[FP10]

Thanks, Kent.
I an astonished to read you consider the (non-electronic) trigger of the FP better than the electronic trigger of the Morini M84. Really?
Very promising for the FP 60
Haw many shots have you fired in your FP60?

I friend of mine has an Hämmerli 150-series from early 80s, non-electronic.
The pistol has seen moderate use only, but the owner often expresses his dissatisfaction over a non-constant trigger pull.
He did not say it has eveolved some creep, just variability. (I will ask him more specifically about that).

My FP10 has (always had) a litle bit of dreep and variability too. Adjusting the trigger pull of the FP10, aside from let off force, is not possible.

May yau share your experiences of the Hämmerli non-electronic triggers for extended periods? Will they evolve creep and variability after some thousand rounds?

Where did you get that nice (and obviously easier to clean!?) compensator?
Similar to the compensator Skanåker have monted on his air pistol, but larger.
Cleaning lead deposits from the compensator of the FP10 is downright "labour".
Copper paste helps some, but it is still labourous.

[Reinhamre]

Thanks, Kent.
I an astonished to read you consider the (non-electronic) trigger of the FP better than the electronic trigger of the Morini M84. Really?
Very promising for the FP 60
Haw many shots have you fired in your FP60?

Where did you get that nice (and obviously easier to clean!?) compensator?
Similar to the compensator Skanåker have mounted on his air pistol, but larger.
.

The trigger blade is GOOD! (You can mount one from a SteyerLP10 but it will not do any good)
Creep? One must learn how to adjust a trigger mechanism so that it suits you. I do not know if I have 10 gram or 50 gram trigger pull, I measure it thus; a push behind the grip and it will go off. Light push = few grams. Simple is it not?
It is easy to add weight on the FP60, one option more than on a FP10.
An 84E is too heavy from start and the grip angle can not be altered on an 84E. The trigger itself is not bad on a Morini but trigger blade is better on a FP60. Rear sight is too shallow on an 84E IMHO.

I have shot a few thousands rounds in my FP60

Compensator is the same as Skanåker use in free pistol only made for 14 mm barrel. PM me for source if not on a market near you.

Kent

[FP10]

Creep? One must learn how to adjust a trigger mechanism so that it suits you.
Kent

There are no provisions for adjusting "creep" on the FP10, I think?
Is sear engagement adjustable on the FP 60?

It is easy to add weight on the FP60, one option more than on a FP10.
Kent

Weights can be added and moved on the FP10,- the "rods". I never liked the "rods" of the FP10 / MG1.

An 84E is too heavy from start and the grip angle can not be altered on an 84E. Kent

Yes. the Morini 84 is too heavy.

Is the weight of your FP 60 at 1135 grams with rods and weights included, Kent? If so, what is the "net weight" of the FP 60 less rod/weights?

The trigger itself is not bad on a Morini but trigger blade is better on FP60. Rear sight is too shallow on an 84E IMHO.
Kent

Yes. The rear sight of the Morini 84 is definitely inferrior to that of the FP 10.

[Reinhamre]

It would surprise me if it is not possible to adjust sear engagement on a FP10, I did not look when I had one.
Sure it is adjustable on a FP60
1135 gram is with compensator (a bit heavier than original).
No extra rod or anything.
Kent

[jipe]

I friend of mine has an Hämmerli 150-series from early 80s, non-electronic.
The pistol has seen moderate use only, but the owner often expresses his dissatisfaction over a non-constant trigger pull.
He did not say it has eveolved some creep, just variability. (I will ask him more specifically about that).

The trigger of the Hammerli FP models is the piece that evolved a lot: three different types on the 150, then again modified for the 160. I do not know what was changed on the trigger of the fp60 compared to the 160, but the blade is different.

So I do not think that you can take into account the feedback you got from the trigger of a 150 for a fp60.

[ronpistolero]

Hello Jipe,

I saw your compensator on your 160 and i was just wondering how it grouped. Would you mind posting some pictures of 5 or 10 shot groups with and without the comp? About how much of the felt recoil do you think was tamed by the comp? I want to comp my 107 but I couldn't begin to imagine how I would machine one for an octagonal and tapered barrel. But if the desired effects (smaller group and lesser muzzle jump) would be negligible, I probably would just keep it as it is.

I machined an aluminum comp for my FWB C20 (circa 1994) with such tight tolerance that the head of an unfired pellet would go through it but not the skirt. It was very effective and made the gun much more forgiving with re to groups it produced from one brand of pellet to the next.

Regards,

Ron

[jipe]

Hello Jipe,

I saw your compensator on your 160 and i was just wondering how it grouped. Would you mind posting some pictures of 5 or 10 shot groups with and without the comp?
Ron

What I own is a Hammerli 160 special (same as on the picture, the pictured one is not mine because I wanted to show it without the additional weights/weights mounting rail and I have the weights and rail installed one mine).

That blue comp on it, is factory installed on the 160 special pistol (it doesn't exist on the 160 or 162), it is not an aftermarket or self made comp.

I never removed it and never shot without it => I cannot compare the performances with and without the comp.

The only thing I can say, is that with the comp, there is some muzzle jump remaining. Is it less than without comp, I do not know.